Irene Dennerley (2 of 2)

Disclaimer: this interview was conducted in 1995 and concerns memories of 1930s life; as such there may be opinions expressed or word used that do not meet today's norms and expectations. **************************************************************************

* Transcript ID: ID-95-031AT002

* CCINTB 95-31-15a-p, 95-31-16a-h

* Tapes: ID-95-031OT003 and ID-95-031OT004

* CCINTB Tapes ID: T95-51, T95-52

* Prestwich, Manchester, 12 June 1995: Valentina Bold interviews Irene Dennerley

* Transcribed by Valentina Bold and Maggie Lackey/Standardised by Annette Kuhn

* ID=Irene Dennerley, VB=Valentina Bold

Notes: Second of two interviews with Irene Dennerley; sound quality good. This interview was originally transcribed in a phonetic manner; the original phonetic version can be accessed through our physical collection; please contact Lancaster University Library for more details. **************************************************************************

[Start of Tape One]

[Start of Side A]

[VB tape introduction]

ID: Well a little piece but I mean she sent me the book, which was very good, I--

VB: Yeah it's great.

ID: I'd forgotten all about that, didn't even know where it was from. I thought, I don't know and like, well it was only one pound something but what I wrote, and I said, do I have to send this one pound something. I kept thinking, [inaudible] something in a book. They don't know whether you want-, I didn't know anything, I didn't even know it was even going in a book being honest, you know.

VB: Talking about books, I brought along one that I thought you might find interesting to look at.

ID: They'll have had that for a year, wouldn't it--

VB: Yeah

ID: The bookseller. I am not you, you know, I'm not all that interested in the past, it's gone with me.

VB: Right! Eight.

ID: You know what I mean? And erm, I don't know. I mean I liked it better than today, but then when I say that I mean I was much younger than I am today, isn't it.

VB: Yeah.

ID: I mean I think that somebody that's seen a few years can see [inaudible. I mean you don't normally hold back. Well I'm not mean about these children, etcetera, it's just true.

VB: Yeah.

ID: I mean I would have never done anything what they do. I know banging at doors has been a bit of a pastime where everybody talks to everybody, but I don't remember banging on anybody's door, you know. My mother would have cut my hands off.

VB: 'Cos I was interested when you were telling me before about how you used to take children to the cinema. It sounds like you were--

ID: Oh well in [inaudible], well but they weren't like today were they. I mean I might take these to the cinema and leave them! I mean, you know, [laughs] I mean it's not the same. I mean in saying that I'm not [inaudible]. Yes, 'cos it was 00:02:00sort of a big gang you see, one [inaudible] back to the other. But I mean, I don't say all kiddies are like that because they're not. But if you're here a bit, they must know it's done, they go into the pubs you know today. I used to see, at that period of my life -- 'course I had loads of friends then, you don't actually grow older, and I used to be in town quite a lot. Now if I want anything I'm very quick in town and out and back home and I would never go at night, you know, because-- And, well, you're a bit scared because you don't know who's doing anything and they're so awful today. But as I said, went into town, it's a few months ago, [laughs] and my daughter, when it's me birthday or Christmas, I forget anyway, she always sort of gets a voucher and it was for Littlewoods. Can't afford Marks [Marks and Spencers] any more, and so I says, 00:03:00"Well I'll go 'cos it's in the Arndale, I can go in the Arndale Centre," I said, so up and down I says, 'cos I [inaudible]. So I says, a back seat, and it's true and I came out and I thought, I'm not walking to Piccadilly for no buses. I go to Cannon Street, now the Cannon Street bus comes this right, right up, you know. Ninety-six I think it is, and when I saw [?inaudible], it's so long since I've been, I thought I'll never get across here. And it was a dark lady. I'm not against colour or anything, and she says to me, "Hold my hand and me and you'll run." And she's like, there isn't [inaudible]. I don't think any come up, only going back to the bus station but she's like this, you know, I'm quite safe, I'll tell you, I don't, never thought of that, you know. It's lovely.

VB: I mean it sounded a lot different from that that you were telling me about then, you know, in the thirties. One thing I was wanting to ask you a bit about 00:04:00was, you were talking about a cinema that had been an ice rink [referring to the Ice Palace].

ID: Yeah it was, yeah.

VB: It was used as a cinema?

ID: It was. I don't know if it's still there, love, you see that's too far from here, but I've got a corn, well I've had it cut and it's blinking killing me, and then I've been reading the paper, it's your own fault, it's the shoes you buy. These shoes that made that corn were Clarks that cost nearly twenty-six pound. That's not a cheap shoe, is it? And that one fits lovely, and it was just when I were sort of walking about, you know. I've got, I'd had them for years, about thirty years I had my feet done. Nothing wrong with them feet. Corns [inaudible], I always get. I get a corn and that's on that toe or that one so it's that one, see. It's true this. I says [inaudible] and I've been to this person, 'cos she doesn't charge me much now, but I worked at [inaudible] Hospital which is North Manchester now and I worked there for donkey's, 00:05:00donkey's, years and I don't know what it's like now. [inaudible], I'm sure down them cellars was blinking furnaces, I bet that's where they burnt all the [inaudible] or something, and the flooring was very hot and it made-- Say it's not corns, [inaudible] in me feet and the floor must have this done. Now it was before this year [inaudible] and this [inaudible] is there now, she was having a baby when our Linda's boy was born and that is twenty-three years ago, so I've been going to work. Only had me up at mum's, you know, and I says to her, "You know about feet", and yet she says, well she says to me, [inaudible] she says, them court shoes [inaudible] was stitched on the top and she says, you see it's interfered with your little toes and everything. [inaudible] my little toe. I says, can I have my little toes off? She says don't think you'd be able to walk very good. [laughs]

VB: It sounds a terrible problem that.

ID: I've got [inaudible] at work. At the moment if you don't mind, I've got tons of shoes, I'm not swanking for it. And wearing galoshes, two years ago I went to my sister's with galoshes on, I'm not kidding and this boy he said, [inaudible], that's on Cheetham Hill and I got some tights [inaudible] a long time. I can take them back on Wednesday you know, and [inaudible]. I only go for there for knickers. Nobody sees your knickers. I thought fifty p for my knickers. I've got some Marks and Spencer's, never worn them. [laughs]

VB: I mean I'm sure someone who was never troubled by her feet was er someone you mentioned the last time I was here, Sonja Henie.

ID: Oh well her yes, oh well that's her, yeah, never really seen her myself but I know she was at the Ice Pal-, it was called the Ice Palace. I don't know if you know where Derby Street is.

VB: [shakes head]

ID: Well again, I don't know which route you'd go on. It's not far. You come up Cheetham Hill--

VB: Mhm.

ID: And Waterloo Road is a point on Cheetham Hill. Coming from town it begins, it begins really with Cheetham Hill [inaudible], Waterloo Road. It comes up to meet it and then this, this other lane comes up, very busy just round there. And erm, how can I put it, well Derby St-, Derby Street too comes up Cheetham Hill. How can I tell you, erm now the bus from town, the 135 passes the top of Derby Street. You come round by the station, Victoria Station, and it's this first street, I forget what that's called. It's-, two other streets that's leading down to Strangeways Jail. If you look that way you would have seen the tower, I don't know if you did or not. But it's that way, and then this Derby Street, 00:08:00it's a big street with business people and all the rest of it. Aye, since them times-- 'Course I moved and then I come up here and all the rest of it. But it's not happened sudden, it's quite a few years now, and we used to live right at the bottom of that street which was called Waterloo Road, that, and we used to live on the corner in a big house, you know. So I was telling our Lindsay yesterday, I says if I, if you were home-- We had a big side window, I says, and if you was at home not going to work say that day and it was between eight and half past and you could hear [stamps feet] very loud like that and it was people walking to work, you know. And this place was called the Ice Palace and I never went when they were skating, I don't think I was even interested, but in the summer months, I don't know how they did it and it was what I would call now 00:09:00noisy and dead common, but it was really only for kids, only twopence I think or threepence. They had it like a picture house, you know, they had it like that in the summer. But in the wint-, I think it was the winter, I think that's how they did it and loads of the big stars used to go and I think then of course you wouldn't have got in for twopence, you know, I don't know I mean we were just ordinary, and I suppose perhaps it was a pound or two. And then I weren't really interested in skating. Now I could watch that Torvill and Dean now for a week if they'd let me in free, if you know what I mean. I've seen them on the telly, I've not seen them on the stage. But erm, I know she was on once, you know. And so that's how they used to do it. Otherwise it was-- now, now I've been up once and it's a bit ago but they won't have altered it since them, now it's a street of warehouses mostly, you know.

VB: Mhmm.

ID: Then it was erm waterproof and raincoat factories and erm, the only thing I can remember, there may have been more than one, but the, the pub is still there called the Cheetwood. That was there when I was a little girl, you know, but I think everything else must be built up. And it's funny because at the side of Sherborne Street and the prison was what we called the Hills, and they used to-- Well they still do, I mean you can't really move hills but the thing what's happened is somehow, I don't know how they've done it, but they're all boarded in now. The prison has got something on that, I could, and I mean I could see that when I-- But in Derby Street now you can't see any of these hills, yet they are at the back of it--

VB: Somehow, you know? And you can't, you can't see them because the-- How they've done it is there's no way from Derby Street or any other street as far 00:11:00as I can see, you can get on them hills. We used to play on them, you know.

VB: Ah, did you play outdoors quite a lot then?

ID: Oh, only in the summer, yeah. You know it wasn't as bad as today really, but I think somewhere in the beginning of town there's these dirty fellas and that, you know. And what used to happen there is, there used to be erm, I don't know if it was only one gang or two but used to play something called pitch and toss with coppers, I think. It's some sort of game, I don't know and of course like as I said, I've got three sisters going with us and my mother used to say-, because we lived at the corner. But it wasn't right on top of the Hills, well it was only across [inaudible], she'd say now if you see any of them men, don't go near them. I mean the mothers always been the same haven't they, and we'd say, we won't. But no man ever said anything towards us, I think they were more interested in pitch and toss or whatever it was, you know. But now as far as I 00:12:00can tell, I don't think anyone you know can really get on those hills. And er, I don't know but I don't think so.

VB: Did you ever go to the er ice rink to skate when you were--?

ID: No, not to skate, I weren't really interested. But I mean I was, I went to the picture thing and now I'm such a nice quiet person, I mean I was a child, and we didn't understand it. Oh it was dead noisy you know and it's only since I grew up-- I used to think well how did they make the ice, what have they put on the ice, you know. 'Cos you used to see like boards, a board thing but there was plenty of seats, you know.

VB: They must have covered over the ice, then.

ID: They must have done. I don't know what they did really, I mean you know when you're a child you don't go into it do you?

VB: And did it have-, what sort of seating did it have?

ID: Oh just ordinary seats and I used to-, well seats, not often but I used to think, well you know if you're sort of in a picture or something the seats 00:13:00slightly go up, don't they and I kept thinking, I can't, I don't know whether them seats went up or not and if they didn't, how could you see proper, you know. But about that other bit, you know I just don't know.

VB: Was it a big screen they had, or?

ID: Yes, yeah it was quite big, yes I remember that. You'd see the pictures all right, yeah. But erm otherwise like I say, I think when it was the ice business, I think it was too dear for us to go--

VB: Yeah.

ID: You know, 'cos I mean when you were, when I was a kid sort of thing, you know. But I know it was there. Whether-, I don't know what it is now, being honest. It's--

VB: It sounds quite something really, I mean with the ice rink and the--

ID: Yeah, it was all right you know. But er what it is now I wouldn't know. I don't think it's a rink, I wouldn't know, though, because they go to so many 00:14:00things in that, I mean since then anyway it was the war wasn't it and the bombing and I don't know what it hit and what it didn't, you know, I don't know. And it's a big, long street I mean, but like I walk up it sometimes, [laughs] it's all yours. It was the Waterloo Road to Cheetham Hill Road, you know and it's, I can't say there's anything that's even, I mean I go down sometime on the bus, I mean. I can't see that, not down, not there and I've not passed where we used to-- Well, it isn't there so what's the use. It's like erm, I think it's a warehouse now a year or two ago, well it must be about four I think. Erm, I can't walk any more with my corn, er, but I know once or twi-, oh I'll have a walk, you know, this way just to see what's what. That's why I know all the 00:15:00hills were, and I have bought things down there, not really looking. You been up Bury New Road now, this bus would take you to Bury New Road, the 96 bus. Well on Bury New Road there's, from Victoria Station there's a load of shops. Have you ever been down there? And it's mostly owned by Pakistani people, and I know on a Sunday--I've not been for a long time, it's about five years since then--but once somebody said, do you know they have a nice market down there and beside from that, well, they have the market now because that was in front of the Strangeways Prison and it's all been built up, so I've heard. That's to make it luxury for the prisoners, you see. Can't make it luxury for us but they'd make it luxury for the prisoners. That's a hotel I've heard now [inaudible] [laughs] the street. I don't know what it used to look like, can't alter some things. The 00:16:00big tower's there and all the rest of it you know. You can see that miles off, and erm so but I know there was this like sort of market, but they still do it, well they have them in side streets, but there's loads of shops and I says to my sister, them shops are exactly in the same position as we used to have shops there. She says they aren't the same shops [inaudible], only like they've been made more modern and that. But she said, they are Pakistanis nearly but you can nearly get everything you want down there, you know.

VB: So there used to be a market, though, you're saying [inaudible]?

ID: Yes, but I think this market being honest is only since these Pakistanis come, because once it was in the Manchester paper how erm untidy and dirty they used to leave the site you see. But I think now, I think they still have these 00:17:00bits of market on a Sunday. That's it, on a Sunday in the side streets, you know, beside all these shops like, you know. But erm otherwise-- I mean I've not been down for about five years, I mean there's no need, you know. I mean he goes down there. It's all right if you've got a car you know and you can ramble around, but it's bad enough in the week here, you know if you go on a Sunday, well you'd be waiting a good hour for all the buses and beside that they'd charge you more than the ordinary fare, charge you what they want I think on a Sunday. So I mean [all town's?] open now on a Sunday, but I never go. It's not been happening too long that it's, been open a bit two months, you know, and they say like it's quite good but er we'll have to see, you know. Well if you want to go like, you go.

VB: The other thing I was really wanting to ask you about was er, some of the stars you mentioned before 'cos we talked a bit about erm people like Clark 00:18:00Gable and Leslie Howard.

ID: [inaudible] [laughs]

VB: 'Cos I mean the reason I brought that book really was er I wondered if er any of the stars in there were people that you enjoyed in the thirties?

ID: Oh well I did, but I mean actually I never met them. I mean, [laughs] in the war I mean, well in the war, actually I'm getting on a little bit now, I know I don't look it, do I, but I am getting on a little bit and how can I put it? In the war I mean, this was before [inaudible] by the way, I used to go out with my friend, and we used to go to town and well I wouldn't go today. But you know, we did, and we used, well [inaudible] [laughing] that [inaudible] never knew you was that [inaudible]. I said, "Don't be so bloody cheeky", and we were talking about seeing something you probably wouldn't know at all, but I talk about the 00:19:00Arndale Centre, I was terribly sad to see it go, really sad because from Market Street to, what is that street? Oh just said it, haven't I, where the buses go up and down. [inaudible] Street is it, not [inaudible] Street? What was it called that street, next to it at the beginning it goes up and down and it'll come to me [inaudible] names I think. And there lovely, a lot of them, lovely little cafes and pubs and all in the old-fashioned style, if you know what I mean, you know. Now I told you I was on munitions, and I mean there were, it was a bit, well, really awful in a way. But I mean we were young and bombs weren't falling all the time and that, and then in munitions, little gang of us used to go out. It'd be Friday or Saturday and we used to go to town loads, but 00:20:00sometimes it was dances, sometimes [inaudible]. [inaudible] about. I don't know 'cos I mean it's not there now. You said some things about a bar called Lipton's and it was like where some of these loose women went. So what, you know, I mean they never interfered with us, and we used to go with two or three lads from work, 'cos we were only young so they must have [inaudible] you know and have a drink and that. And I mean they never used to come and try and pinch any of our lads or anything. I mean they might have thrown them out if they did, but they didn't, you know what I mean. I mean I've got nothing against anybody as long as they're not causing trouble, and you know just depends what you like doesn't it. But I know a few of them used to go in there, but a few of them go in loads of places now. But I just think it was a shame because, well, I can't see that the 00:21:00Arndale Centre's so marvellous and you can [inaudible] everything in it. And you can tell how big it is, can't you, so you can tell with little pubs and little cafes and all the rest of it. But I think it were old days but still it's a shame because they were nice places. I mean as far as I know if anyone is still in there. But we didn't used to go every week or anything, but we used to go, and we did know a few Yanks, I've nothing against the Yanks. Where would this country be really and honestly and truly only for the Yanks? We wouldn't even be here. I mean you know, and they were stationed at Burtonwood, you know near Warrington, which I think is closed now. And [laughs] we used to come over and they used to say to my friend and I, if you come tomorrow we'll introduce you to, you know, Clark Gable.

VB: [laughs] Right.

ID: I used to say to my friend, they're just saying that, you know, and 00:22:00[inaudible] near Warrington. I was born at Warrington, but I don't know what it was like.

VB: I mean, talking of Clark Gable, what sort of qualities in Clark Gable attracted you in a film star?

ID: Oh I dunno, I mean I think it was those eyes and, how can you put it, that quirk or whatever you call it to the mouth, and oh, I think he was very interesting, don't you? [laughs] Have you ever seen Gone With the Wind? Isn't that gorgeous, can you beat that? I think it, well I'm thinking he had a helluva charm didn't he? I mean, there's no, no getting past it, is there. I mean, you know, well you too fell in [inaudible] with somebody, you know, and to me now it's so funny, you know. I was never, how can you put it, well I think in a way I was sort of sensible and knew that, you know, well if you met this fella he'd 00:23:00shake your hand and he'd look at you in that way and all the rest of it, but he'd do that with everybody. I don't know about yourself but in a way would be favoured, out you know. And it reminds me of something I was reading not too long ago, not a book, it must have been in some memories or something. I don't know what it was now, and I thought, oh isn't that nice. And this woman now is a granny of about seventy-nine or something, and she said she remembers meeting er Clark Gable. Er, they were going somewhere, now I just forget where it was and she says this jeep was coming along and it was coming along sort of rather slow and when they passed--she was a young girl then, you see--when it passed you know this fella's [inaudible] all over and she said, "God, it's Clark Gable, stop this bus", you know. [laughs] And she said, this driver, I don't know if it was a coach or what, he stopped it and allowed these ladies to get off and Clark 00:24:00Gable stood up in the jeep waiting. [laughs] But I mean that was just her saying, wasn't it, whether--

VB: Yeah!

ID: I suppose it was true. I mean what is the sense of writing something like that? She didn't say he come and kissed them all or something, you know. But and of course he's been dead a long time now, you don't like to think of him as dead do you? [laughs] And she said it was so thrilling because she'd seen him on the pictures like we all had and she didn't think he would have that same charm, but she says, by God he did, and oh if she'd invited me back to the street. [laughs] I thought, oh it does make you laugh, aren't we daft, you know. [laughing]

VB: Did you talk about stars much with your friends?

ID: When? When you're young?

VB: In the thirties, did you talk about--?

ID: Oh yeah, yeah, we were just like, I don't know really what, I know you a little bit now, but I don't know too many young girls, they seem all right to 00:25:00me. I mean, ever, I mean I couldn't talk to my daughter even like I talk--, well I wouldn't, you know, God. [laughs] Er, but she's quite nice, don't get me wrong, there's nothing erm funny but of course I suppose it's 'cos it's family, you know. She knows I was a flirt and all that. But when I say I was a flirt, I was never intimate with any fellas 'cos for the simple reason there was no pill then was there, you would be frightened to death. To us to have a baby and there was nothing to stop it-- Oh, you should have heard our gang of girls. I mean you would have, no you wouldn't have brought that sha-, well we wouldn't. I'm not saying nothing never happened, I'm not saying that at all, but I didn't know everybody. But I'll tell you this, I never knew one girl in my term of working during the war who had a baby. I have heard-- Read now and again and heard now 00:26:00and again of places, and I could hardly believe it because like I say we met Yanks too and we went dancing in the Ritz, it's still there. We used to go to the Ritz you know dancing and all the rest of it. And, you know, we used to have a drink, they used to bring us home. I have come in a jeep. You could tell it all right now, don't think it'll matter, all the way from some pub at Old Trafford. I don't know what pub it was, long time ago you know. But I don't know, I think, I think I'd missed the last bus and my friend was going the other way and I think one American soldier took her her way and one took me with the strict warning that if they could see--, it was dark, you know, and I mean it was blackout, so I don't know how it came about. But we had little lights, you know, little blue lights and they used to say, if they seen an officer we'd have 00:27:00to say, well this young lady has just missed the bus, you know make a good excuse. 'Cos it seemed that--, I don't know either 'cos I think, don't think he knew any officers, but they were more sort of generous than ours and like, you know, say I'd missed the bus and I was coming from Old Trafford and in the blackout. I couldn't walk all that way home so this soldier had offered me a lift. He said, they would sort of take that being Yanks. They wouldn't like it, but they would take-- But we didn't meet anybody, you know. So that wasn't so bad, you know, take me right to my house on Waterloo Road in a jeep. [laughs]

VB: Goodness me.

ID: Quite silly. [laughs] But you know that, that was sort of how it was, you know I mean erm, but-- So I never actually, well I didn't, I never met Clark Gable. I think, er I think a few of the others come but I, I never met them or 00:28:00seen them, you know, or anything. I only know about this one and being-- And I have read that in the paper.

[End of Side A]

[Start of Side B]

ID: But where this coach was at the time, being honest I've no idea. Er, you know down [Crewe?] way. [inaudible] Burtonwood, well you know he may be hanging around, but I don't know if he ever hang-, hung around there. I don't know where he was stationed, you know.

VB: Someone else that we mentioned the other time was Leslie Howard, you were saying you liked as well.

ID: Oh I did, but he was a different type, wasn't he? He seemed much quieter. I mean with Clark Gable there was a bit of a devil there, wasn't there, I mean there's no getting away from it, there was just something there that'd grab you. But with Leslie, he was very, very nice but he was more of the quiet sort wasn't he, you know. So it would just depend, I mean, he may not have been quiet for all we know, but he used to act like that, didn't he. There were quite a few at 00:29:00that time I liked. Used to like James Stewart, he was another nice, seemed a nice quiet-- But I mean in some pictures you would be say, oh come on, get it out, get a move on. You know how slow he talks, I mean, you know. But he, he was nice. There was quite a few nice ones. I think when you get a bit older you forget them a bit, you know. I mean, but er, oh I think everybody was in love with Clark Gable and everybody who was nice, being honest. Because I suppose it was something that, anyway you were never going to really-, well then if you did it was nothing, you know like, you know. Well a lot of them were something in the Army, you know. But erm, I think they were lovely dancers the Yanks, you know. We had many a good time with them, they knew how to take a girl out and I mean like I'm saying is 'cos this is how I found them. I mean er otherwise you 00:30:00could hear all sorts about them couldn't you, but there you are, I dunno, if they were a long way from home. [laughs]

VB: I mean talking about dancing, did you like the dance pictures, musicals? 'Cos I've got one still with me just now from Top Hat.

ID: Oh right, yeah.

VB: Did you like Astaire and Rogers?

ID: I liked, I did used to erm sort of like it, but of course they weren't the sort of dances what we did. But I [inaudible], I mean you know they were very nice, but I mean we didn't used to then dance them, it was all sorts of dances. Did you see any of the VE programmes?

VB: No I didn't.

ID: No, well that's how they were anyhow, they used to learn us this sort of dance and they'd go all round you. At first you would say, "What are they doing", you know. But you know I see them do that dance, it's very quick and you soon learned it. They were lovely dancers, a lot of them. I think they start learning to dance when they're quite young. But I don't know about now, but they were very good dancers.

VB: So did you feel that this sort of dancing didn't really have much to do with--?

ID: I think this sort of dancing really was sort of big shows you know with all those lovely gowns, and beside them two there used to be a troupe of dancers didn't there. I used to love them erm pictures at that time, you know, really did. I think when I was sort of er younger, I think I was very romantic me, you know. Don't know if we all are, but I think I was you know. Used to live in these pictures, me. I was the best dancer there, you know, something like that. [laughs]

VB: Did you imagine yourself in the film, then?

ID: Well if it was Clark Gable, yeah. [laughs] I used to love them, I used to think they were great. I used to love, er, well I do love shows now if you must know. I mean I've been like to London, well I've been at South Wales, well this 00:32:00has all been arranged. I don't know if I'm even going this year [inaudible]. But I wouldn't be going this year anyway if I was going, but I've been to London six times and it's because, you see where my sister lives, it's better than these places I'll tell you. Of course it's much smaller where she lives, but how can you put it? It's like saying, this is just a part of England. That's a part of England too. But I mean she lives in Gwent and it's lovely but it's the big cities. It's only sort of small, cor blimey, they're not half well catered for, really and truly, 'cos they've all got cars, you know. Show me up they do, and erm you know quite nice, and beside all that of course-- I don't know where you live [inaudible], I've heard it's lovely in Scotland. My other sister's 00:33:00[inaudible] up to Scotland somewhere and erm, how can I put it, well that's right up there [laughs] [inaudible] and erm my sister and me [inaudible] lived in Salford, but I don't miss that. She comes here on a Tuesday night, she's changed the night. Was Wednesday night, comes Tuesday night now, and erm she's another one [inaudible]. But there was another lady, Hilary her name is, but I don't know [inaudible], and she's a teacher and every year she would write to someone in London, to some theatre to see what's coming and what isn't coming and the price and all the rest of it. Then she would tell my sister the news, 'cos my sister is secretary of the, oh what is it called? Young people can go in 00:34:00it as well. Some sort of club or something and it's rea, really good, you know. One part is the pensioners, that's right, I thought I'd get to it if I thought. One part's the pensioners, oh and there's some gay pensioners today [inaudible] like a million. They're grateful, and then this Hilary who is the head one. I never knew this, I think I've got it right, well she used to see what the show was, say I mean you know there's dozens of theatres and that, and she used to see what the show was. I've seen quite a lot. I've seen, oh I've seen six at least. I've seen 'Cats' and oh quite a lot. I clear forgot what I've seen now. 'Les Miserables' or whatever it's call-, oh I loved that, it made me cry all the time, I loved it. [laughs] A good skating one drove me mad with the noise, what was that called? Something Express [referring to 'Starlight Express']. Oh you 00:35:00know, of course, of course when you see--, all in different theatres. 'Anything Goes' with Elaine Paige. Oh but all these people, I loved them, all these people in the cinema, professionals, you know what I mean. And of course it was very nice that, but that-- We used to-- But this girl Hilary, schoolteacher, what happened was, then she used to, in a week I--, who's going, who isn't, sort of things like that. But it wasn't, say that was about April, the show wasn't till about September, if you know what I mean. So that it got-- But with her you see, and this is what Betty says, you had to give her the money to send to London, all the money and they would send the tickets, you know, and then of course, well then this girl or our Betty used to order the coach and all the rest of it 00:36:00and it wasn't bad at one time. I think the first two shows what we've seen, I think the ticket was about twenty pounds. That was beside the coach and everything. Now going from Gwent we had, it was this back road of our Betty for half seven. So you didn't have much of a breakfast and we used to go to Wiltshire far as I remember, stop at a, the Welcome Break, which is a motorway cafe, you know, one thing I know. And don't stop that often, and just a bit to eat, you know what I mean, and then it was going to London all along the M4, I know that, [laughs] and of course it took till about twelve o'clock, so it was dinnertime then and we always used to go in Garfunkel's for our dinner. Have you ever been to London?

VB: Yes, mhm.

ID: Lovely isn't it? Well I think it's lovely. It's a lot of money but it's lovely. So how can I put it? There is in Garfunkel's-, there's tons of Garfunkels there isn't there, and I think I've been in, well I can't have been in more than six 'cos I've only been six times to London. I'll tell you why in a minute, 'cos I [inaudible] [laughing] and well in Garfunkel's, have you ever had a meal there at Garfunk--?

VB: I have actually, yeah.

ID: Yeah, [inaudible] I mean it's [inaudible] isn't it, a three-course meal and I mean, as far as I remember it was always under ten pounds, wasn't it, and it was lovely. And it's lovely and clean, have you noticed, it's got one of them café things near every big cinema you know, Garfunkel's.

VB: I mean, a question that if you don't mind, I'd just like to ask. 'Cos it came to mind when you were talking was, how did you erm choose what films to go to in the thirties, or did you more or less go to every single one?

ID: Oh no, I mean to say, what happened was when you went to the pictures sort of thing, they always told you what was coming next week or you know, a big thing [inaudible], or the week after. I should think they had a month's thing in front of you, you know, to pick or any-- When I say a month I think the picture was only on a week, but it would change you know every week and that--

VB: Yeah.

ID: So it was telling you what was on, you know. And there was that many at that time er what we used to call picture houses. They're not really theatres, you know. There were so many. I think just where I lived on Waterloo Road there must have been within ten minutes about twelve of them, you know you had your pick. I mean we didn't always be running to town. I mean if we was going to town pictures because there was something great on or, you know, something like that. 00:39:00'Cos we could only go to town anyway at weekends, you know. But otherwise you was well off, you know, knew what was coming on, you know.

VB: Yes, I see.

ID: But I mean sometimes you used to get a programme with easily a month thing on it. I've not got any by the way, but I mean, you know, you did, you knew for a bit what was coming on.

VB: I've seen some of these from Bolton actually from the Odeon there.

ID: Oh right.

VB: They had the monthly--

ID: A month, and then you used to get programmes so that you knew what was sort of coming and--

VB: I see.

ID: I think if it was very, very good and, you know, to make sure that you wanted to see it, I think you could book but I'm not very su-, you know, I'm a bit dozy about that. But I think you could book, mostly for the weekend I think that was, you know. But these other shows in London, that's what we talked about 00:40:00here. They're so professional. You know, 'course time's altered and different. But I says not too long ago on a Sunday evening, I was very surprised, don't know why I [inaudible], how can I put it erm I thought it was making a noise, it does that you know [talking about a gadget]. I don't get frightened of noises here. Mind you [inaudible], the kids. That and the kids is alright-- And er well what do you want me to tell you about, then?

VB: Well we were saying about how professional the musicals were--

ID: Yeah.

VB: [inaudible] I reminded me of it.

ID: Oh well, it was rea-, they were really, really lovely and this was on a Sunday night for an hour. Now I've forgotten his name and he's great. He sort of looks a bit dark, he's got very dark hair, he's [inaudible]. Lovely dancer, could do everything. I can't remember the name, you see. Oh he's lovely and it was just [inaudible]. Elaine Paige was in that, and they did a few things from different shows, and I thought oh God I hope it doesn't go on all night, you 00:41:00know, because they're so-- There's not a-, [inaudible] you know there's not a break in the things you know, it's lovely and that's how it is isn't it, I mean you must have been to the show. You know, in them shows too it was really nice and worth it and like I say, oh I've been six times, I don't know how many times I've been. And er I used to think it was great, you know, and he was just like so [inaudible]. When you get very rich, when you get your very good job [inaudible]-- Oh yeah, yeah [inaudible] you know, and he used to say, I could come to London for a fortnight 'cos I think you need a lot of money. [laughs] Well you do.

VB: [inaudible]

ID: Yeah well you do don't you, and like I said to our Betty [inaudible], I love going and [inaudible], of course you do. But the thing what happened was, I dunno how, it started like, it was only once a year we used to go but [inaudible] said the last time that Hilary, she gets off the coach and she don't 00:42:00live too far from here, no she's in [inaudible] Street or somewhere. And she says to us something, did our [inaudible] want the same tickets. She said, me and her and another lady and her friend. I mean she's tons of friends, but she wasn't getting everybody one, I mean the girl didn't live far from any of them, you know [inaudible]. So she says erm, right [inaudible] twenty pounds you know, and she says, the last one she, I forget what it was, I think it was 'Miss Saigon' or-- I would have loved to have seen it, and something else. But the tickets then were thirty pounds, and our Betty says, "Look, this is one day". She's not [inaudible] but erm, you know, she says this is one day she says. We start [inaudible], we stop at Wiltshire, she says, and you know, takes three hours or three and a bit from there to London, you know. She said, so I was 00:43:00reckoning it up, you know, she says and I'm not kidding you, she says, I got it to nearly sixty pounds, she says, and this is for one day, you know. Very funny, our Betty. So I says, er, and so she says really, she says, I can't afford it. She says, if you really want a mate, you know like, to go, it's something marvellous. Oh right I'll try and afford it, she says, but not for an ordinary show, you know. Oh she used to make me laugh, our Betty. She used to say, we'll go down here, Enid, because I want to buy you a headscarf from Liberty's. Have you ever heard? So I says, where? And she would say, Liberty's. I said, I'll show you what I mean. So you know a headscarf was sixty pound. I says, [laughs] I could hardly stand it. I says it looks very ordinary doesn't it. [inaudible] was buying this thing, it was just like a big flat table. Have you been in there?

VB: Yeah.

ID: I thought, well so I says, just [inaudible]. She says, "Oh aye", you know. Don't think you'd get anything for threepence or sixpence, yeah. She was having me dying laughing. So I don't know how long ago that was, it's not so long ago. But I mean it is about two or three years now and I really miss that. But I'm [inaudible]. But what my sister did, she started booking at Bristol at the Hippodrome cos they had some very good shows and I've seen-- Well what I've been in it's not been too bad there, fifteen pounds as a rule, which our Betty says is quite enough and it's not such a long journey and it makes a nice day of it, if you know what I mean. We do start out, well Bristol isn't far from Gwent you know, go over the Severn Bridge and, you know, you're not far off, it's only an hour's run or something like that. And we have our dinner in [inaudible] place 00:45:00which, you know, is nowhere near what it is in Garfunkel's place, but it's nice you know. And then like we go and see the show. And like I say and then what happens there, we don't stay around for tea there because they drive us to a nice big place with so many, you know-- On the way to drive back to Gwent, you know in different places. But it's been really nice, you know, and so it doesn't come half the money to London. I mean I think it's very exciting in London, I loved it. It used to make me laugh 'cos of the coach [inaudible]. I mean you're very slow going aren't you getting in [inaudible]. And it used to stop right opposite, what's the big stores in Knightsbridge?

VB: Harrods.

ID: Harrods. I've never been in yet, and I said, "Can't we get off?" And I could just have a bag and when I go shopping I can hold it, you know like. Like yeah 00:46:00so she says, oh I'll try and get you one of them some time but [inaudible]. She said Knightsbridge is a bit of a way from where we're going to the West End, she says, and you know what it's like at Garfunkel's, she says, we'll never get in, you know she says, and then we're going to see a show aren't we. I mean it was an afternoon show, you know. So she says, we haven't the time you know, and we didn't. I thought, what a shame, I would have loved to have a-- Well I would have loved the time. Nobody saw a bag [inaudible] and then, oh [inaudible]. But I just thought I would have liked that, you know. But I liked it because erm, how can I put it, I didn't like to see anybody sort of like a tramp or a very poor-- You feel very sorry for that. But I used to like seeing tourists, you know different people, you know. Only [inaudible] a lot, not just London I mean another place that I like as well, have you been down there to Wells Cathedral and that--

VB: No, no.

ID: And that and them places, you know. Oh God they're lovely, you know I mean.

VB: I mean I was wondering when you were talking about erm, Harrods and--

ID: Yeah.

VB: A minute ago you were talking about the clothes there in the films. Was that part of the attraction of the films in the thirties do you think seeing-- I mean again I've got another still here of Joan Crawford in an amazing gown.

ID: Yes, oh yeah, I think so, I think the clothes were, well of the shows anyway. I mean can't tell you about otherwise 'cos I mean I've never even been to London or anywhere there. But their clothes were lovely and the clothes they danced in and all the rest of it, yes, I think they were gorgeous. I really did. So there's nothing much you can say about the chaps because they only had them sort of suits and a little dickie bow, didn't they?

VB: Yeah.

ID: And you know, they always looked nice, like smart. But I mean it was the girls from the chorus and everything wasn't it that-- I'm talking like you were 00:48:00there too. You'll have to forgive me. [laughs]

VB: [laughs]

ID: [laughs] No, it was it lovely. You see there's not mu, well in London probably yes. But you don't get much of that here do you? I mean now and again, you know. There was 'Singin' in the Rain' wasn't it, that was there. The last one I've seen at [inaudible], I think it was 'Me and My Girl' and it was gorgeous, you know, and I really liked that. It was lovely, it was lovely last year, it was really lovely, it was a lovely day, you know, even though it was the top of the theatre there, but in the interval-- I mean you know, and the sun was sort of coming down and it was such a good show. There was a little person-- Have you ever seen that show?

VB: I haven't, no.

ID: Well there's, I don't know who it is, and I never really got to know who took-- Also we had programmes but got a habit of leaving them somewhere. There was this little thing in it and I'm sure he was a dwarf, you know and 00:49:00[inaudible] [laughs]. [inaudible] think about [inaudible] think about the little thing in 'Me and My Girl'. [laughing] We couldn't stop laughing, I couldn't see it, I don't know what it was yet. I don't know but it was supposed to be taking something off you. But it was so funny. I mean I couldn't really tell what it was. It looked like a little dwarf and er it was double jointed or something, and he could make himself into all sorts of daft little positions, you know. He was dead funny. I should think [inaudible] make you laugh, you know. But erm--

VB: Did you like the comedy films, 'cos I've noticed I've passed you there just before that, behind that one [indicates photograph of Laurel and Hardy] [inaudible]--

ID: Oh that, well yes did at that age, you know. I mean, you know, let's be honest. I mean now I think weren't they a pair of twerps. But you know but really at that age when you're younger, it's very funny isn't it. Well I'm 00:50:00saying isn't it, saying now you're as old as me. But I can't help it, you know, you know I'm telling the truth and I mean not that you're as old as me, [laughs] you know what I mean, but yeah they did used to have you die laughing. And there was three others was there, fellas with bald heads. I don't know who they were, forget who they were [possibly referring to The Three Stooges]. There were another funny lot and then I seen one or two films with Charlie Chaplin in, you know, and God you couldn't have beat him, could you, with his cane and little 'tache and his funny feet, you know. Yeah, we had plenty to really er-- Shame we haven't got it now, send this lot round here, you know what I mean. Yeah, you was very well entertained. Yes I did like it. Now I'd call it stupid, so what I think is your attitudes differ as, perhaps as you go older, I don't know because I mean what would interest you when you were very young won't interest you when you're older. And I think in a way it's only natural isn't it. I mean, if it sort of interests you you'd say, she's a bloody fool, you know something like 00:51:00that, wouldn't you though, you know. But erm, well it did then, and I always loved lovely clothes. I only wish I could afford them, but I did. I mean, well you used to see them sort of things and you used to try and get a frock something like it. I had many a frock made because clo-, well it's not cloth, it's fabric isn't it or something, erm was rather cheap and we used to go to a shop, won't be there now. It was near, that's Bury New Road as you go in, you see the big bridges that's going into Victoria I suppose by my geography. Whether it is or not I don't know, but I think so, and this used to be under the Arches as they called it. It was a Jewish shop called Morgenstein's I think, and he had a great big, you know all in the window like the figures of, of women, 00:52:00you know, you know like a dress-- And I used to work--then was before the war but I forget. But anyway, we used to make a waterproof and this lady was my boss. She was Jewish and I've never [inaudible] against anybody as long as they're all right and she was all right. And she used to say, look at that, to me, that would make a lovely suit for you, a lovely frock, you know. And let's see, and it might have been about two and eleven a yard, you know, and she used to say, "Tell him you've only got two shilling." And I says, "Oh I don't like--", you know. And she says, "Tell him." So like we used to go in and say, oh she's been looking for ages, like I only worked for her, not her daughter, and this. And he used to say, "Oh yes, yes". He'd sort of get the roller out, it was like a roll, and I remember along the counter was the measuring thing. It used to be seem like it was stuck to the counter, you know. And he used to say, how much? I know you used to get about three yards, I don't know what for but I know we did. Could only afford three yards now and again I think, you know. And 00:53:00he used to say, "Yes very good for two and eleven". And she says, "Well I've got news for you, she's only got two bob." You know like two bob isn't it, a yard or something. And he used to say, "Oh, what a shame", and I says, "Oh well, never mind", you know, "I'll just have to do without." And he was saying, "No you won't, no you won't." We were nearly out of the shop, you know. So I used to get it and I was like, oh you know there's something with these Jewish people, they know to bargain if they know nowt else, you know. But er like as I say, there again I've got nothing against anyone as long as it's not hurting me. I worked a long time together with Jewish. A lot of the shops were Jewish that made waterproofs and raincoats.

VB: Did you make it up yourself then, buy the fabric?

ID: No, she used to make it for me, she used to make up the raincoats and that. I tell you another thing she used to-- Course it's a long time ago now, we won't get done in-- How can I put it? We used to work at Dan Levy's you know, now you 00:54:00know Dannimac. It's a marvellous thing, Dannimac, and we used to work-- And he'd be well dead, but he was really the boss of Dannimac, the one who was the boss, and this lady's name was Fanny [surname] and she was what they called his sample maker. So that if he got a new thing, she made it if you know what I mean. And she used to say [laughing] to me, do you like this, you know. My name's Eileen but she always used to call me Renee. She would say, "Do you like this, Renee? [inaudible] Oh it's lovely." So she was a bit big, you know, and they made a sample thing and that was all right for me sort of thing and he used to-- Oh I think it's lovely, and they had to be perfect this thing, and she'd make a little tuck somewhere where she shouldn't, and she used to-- And she'd like take it, show the manager, and he used to say, "What's that", you know. And it was 00:55:00only a little thing, and she used to, "Oh I'm sorry about that". It wasn't quite, something wasn't quite-- And he used to say, "Oh well we can't let that go, we'll get this done again perfect." And he used to say to me, "There's a coat here for half a crown if you want." And I, [inaudible] now [inaudible]. Now I can see the Dannimac [inaudible]. I've seen them in Kendal's [inaudible], didn't half cost something. Used to be sixty-eight guineas or pounds for that. I used to get one for two pounds. [laughs] It wasn't her style, I said. Do you know I had a coat for every day of the week, and they were all Dannimac. But at that time, you never knew these [inaudible] could be so [inaudible] But I do know that everything on that coat is made perfect, you know. And I don't know how she got away with it because the least little thing he would say, "Oh that won't go. There's another coat for you ." [laughing] And my mum used to say, 00:56:00"Will you stop bringing these coats home, I can't afford every minute two and three shilling [laughing] and two-and-six for a coat." I thought [inaudible]. I should have said-- [laughing]

VB: [inaudible] [laughing].

ID: But the thing is I mean [inaudible] take them. Even they wore out, you know what I mean. But oh you know I always remember that 'cos that's [inaudible]. His name was Dan Levy, you know, and he used to say-- It was in the same shop that we worked--

[End of side B]

[End of Tape One]

[Start of Tape Two]

[Start of Side A]

ID: And my sister was so fat, and she kept saying, don't know why we've come here. Can you hear that roaring? So I says, she used to say, they're marvellous [inaudible] we'd be drowned with you [inaudible]. She's a chip off the block [inaudible] [laughing]. [interference on tape]

VB: [inaudible]

ID: Now it's all over, we're quite safe like. I'm a bit glad I went through it. 00:57:00I didn't have much choice mind. [laughs] [interference on tape] [inaudible].

[tea being made]

VB: I'm going to see if I can find a picture of Clark Gable in this book after us talking about him. I'm sure there is one.

ID: [laughs] It was that cheeky grin and that dimple in his cheek and them sparkling eyes wasn't it.

VB: Mhm.

ID: Oh you don't have no sugar or nothing?

VB: No I don't, no.

ID: Oh you can come for a week if you want!

VB: There is one of him here with erm, Judy Garland and Robert Taylor.

ID: Oh she was nice wasn't she. He was nice, well he was a handsome bloke.

VB: Yeah.

ID: Shame they've got to peg out isn't it?

VB: Yeah.

ID: Yes, nice. That's Clark isn't it?

VB: Yes.

ID: Know him anywhere seeing ha had an eye with him. [laughs] He was a very 00:58:00charming chap, whatever you say.

VB: Aye. Cary Grant got plenty of.

ID: [hums]

VB: It's got a wee piece about Clark Gable here talking about some of his films like, eh, Mutiny on the Bounty and San Francisco and--

ID: Oh I bet I've seen them all.

VB: Yeah.

ID: Ah, the one I remember best of course is Gone with the Wind. He was great in that, weren't he?

VB: Yes. It says here that he worked as an engineer as well.

ID: Ah.

VB: Mhm. I'll see if they've got Leslie Howard.

ID: [hums] Have you other places to go to?

VB: I do, yes. [pause 1 second] There's one of Leslie Howard here in Romeo and Juliet.

ID: Ah.

VB: I don't know if you saw that?

ID: Don't know if I've seen it but, yeah. He was nice. He looks too good to be true, though, doesn't he? I like a bit of a devil in a fella, long as it's not too much.

VB: I was going to say, if that was part of the attraction of Clark Gable?

ID: Yeah, I think so.

VB: Yeah.

ID: I think we're all types a bit aren't we, you know.

VB: Yeah. Bing Crosby as well [looking through book].

ID: Oh, he was a lovely singer wasn't he. I liked him, he was nice.

VB: Yes.

ID: I think for me, you see, they've got to have this bit of a devil in them.

VB: Yeah.

ID: I don't know but there's--

[both laugh]

ID: Oh dear.

VB: Were there other male stars that had that quality that you loved?

ID: You what, love?

VB: Were there other men that had that quality in the pictures?

ID: Well I suppose there was but being honest, I mean he's, he is somebody who stood out, you know what I mean. I don't ever, how can I, I can't say I know how to put it, I don't remember him seeming ever-- Well he was only young of course and not growing old or anything and yet he must've done, I mean he didn't die young or anything, you know.

VB: What about Ronald Colman, did he appeal to you?

ID: Yeah, he was all right but nobody to me ever come up to the other fella, you know.

VB: Yep.

ID: There was quite a lot of them. I don't think they sort of would make good film stars, do you, if they didn't have some of charm about them, you know.

VB: Yeah [looking through photos and passing to ID]. And there's another type again, Spencer Tracy.

ID: Oh I liked him.

VB: Yeah.

ID: I really did like him. Because you know to me he always seemed so, I dunno, kind and honest, one of them sort, you know. [inaudible] I was an awful flirt. [pause 2 seconds] Nice when you're a flirt and you never really got to know [inaudible]. [laughing] I mean to say!

VB: [laughs] There's one here of Tyrone Power, he's looking very dashing.

ID: Yes, now he was nice wasn't he.

VB: Yes, with Madeleine Carroll here, in Lloyds of London.

ID: Well I can't make you that out then, if you don't have owt in it, can I? [passes coffee].

VB: No, that's lovely, thanks very much.

ID: Do you like a cake?

VB: Erm, I'll just have coffee just now actually.

ID: Oh right you'll only have that.

VB: Yeah, mhm. Ray Milland as well here.

ID: Bet that book'd be worth something, you know, with all these old er film stars in, do you?

VB: Yeah.

ID: I've see her too..VB: Deanna Durbin.

ID: Yes.

VB: Yes.

ID: So that's her. [pause 2 seconds]

VB: Mhm. Aye, this is one with Sonja Henie that we were talking about.

ID: Don't like him [Clark Gable] like that, he looks like too made up, don't he?

VB: With the colour in it.

ID: Yeah, but she was nice.

VB: 'Cos he looks a lot sort of fresher faced there, doesn't he?

ID: Yeah.

VB: [leafing through] Bette Davis.

ID: Yes, oh she was a great actress her. Have you seen her in pictures?

VB: I have, yes.

ID: Great isn't she?

VB: Yes.[pause 1 second] She's got a lot of spirit, hasn't she?

ID: [laughs] Er true enough, yeah.

VB: When you think of films like Jezebel when she's--

ID: Yeah, and what was that one now? I've forgotten now, and she's on the ship, oh, I forget what it was called [probably referring to Now, Voyager]. I forget what she says at the end but it's a saying, isn't it, but I can't think what it 01:03:00was. [pause 2 seconds]

VB: Mhm.

ID: In her pictures she could be good and she could be bad, couldn't she. But she was good. [laughs]

VB: Yeah.

ID: I don't think really it's the same, we don't have the same kind of people, do you?

VB: No, 'cos I mean, I think you're right about Bette Davis. She's quite unusual in that that she could be a good character or a bad.

ID: Yes she could. I've seen her in pictures like, you know. Well I think every time she was in a picture I really liked her, but I think she could sort of be catty and good and horrible, [laughs] you know. So I think she were great. So when you think back now, I dunno, I don't go very much anyway to pictures 01:04:00now, but you were [pause 2 seconds] oh I dunno, they seemed a lot better then, somehow, didn't they, didn't they? You were there, weren't you?

VB: [laughs]

ID: The way I say it I pull everybody into it, you know what I mean. [laughs] Well you might have seen some old films. I think they're lovely.

VB: Very much, I mean I agree with you about the, you know sort of glamorous side of it as well, I think is--

ID: Yeah.

VB: I mean again, just looking through this book.

ID: I think somehow, I don't know 'cos of course, I mean I have been er sort of in a, in a factory or anything for donkey's years.

VB: Mhm.

ID: But I must have treated the factories I work, you know. I mean there were sort of never no need to be feared because I mean there was, er, they would let you know if there was a raid. There was always a shelter to your work somewhere, you know. And I think what it was, you got very good friends with, with 01:05:00everybody. You know, er, fellas and all the rest of it. So, oh aye, tell you some time. [laughs] I had a chap [inaudible] who was very nice really. His name was Frank, it's funny that, long before I knew my husband and I didn't know Frank till I was twenty-two or twenty-three, something like that. That was old for me, and I did have quite a lot before him and er how can I put it? This one was married, though, and he was sort of a chargehand. And that was when we were drilling bullets you know and erm I think, it's probably [inaudible] what I think. I thought, well, the [inaudible] didn't have no time, so it had to be Frank, didn't it. I mean this is another Frank and that was before him, and erm what happened? Oh and I was thinking [inaudible] leaned forward and the thrill went up my arm. But it wasn't a very heavy thrill and of course you pull your hand away soon as anything touches, and he come jumping. I know it was our 01:06:00chargehand, you know. But, and it was only a [inaudible], it wasn't much different, you know finger, him kissing all my arm, all the way up my arm. Thought oh, I like that.

VB: [laughs] Charmer.

ID: [inaudible] [laughs] And I said, wasn't that bad. Well I mean that was all right with my gang but remember there was women that worked there sort of you know in their fifties, in their sixties. As long as you could work you were all right, you know. Oh, God. Well I always remember that time really, you know. And er [laughs] that night my mum said, "So you had the chargehand kissing all the way up your arm." I said, oh you know, there we are. I've given--, you know it's not like everyone could have been on their phone, but some of these old ladies sort of live, you know, near me. There's not many of them [headphones?] at home, and er I said," I think it was the shock you see, mum. He's supposed to take 01:07:00care of us," I says, "And it was my fault." We had [inaudible]. There was nobody just in front and there was a little window. I weren't looking at this place, this was on Cheetham Hill down Carnarvon Street near the prison. But the thing is, about four years ago they banged it down. Do you know what it is, car park. Fancy making it a car park. I thought, cheek. Well I went to see what it is, and I'd seen it not long before that. I thought, I'll just go and see if it was there. And it was, and it was this little window, you know what you could see. It'll make you laugh, this was shoes and boots, oh we didn't wear stockings, or legs going past you know,. Couldn't see the actual person, and I think it was something there that had drew my attention, you know. So [laughs] I says to my mum, "Well we're all friends there, you know. He's the chargehand, [inaudible], 01:08:00didn't half kill myself." She says, "The thing is with you, you're too dozy." I know getting in with this fella, oh he's a right flirt, you know. No getting in with this fella 'cos he's married. I said, "Couldn't care less, he's quite nice." [laughs] But he was just a good friend, you know. But try telling people that. I mean even then they had to belch, you know. But nah, and it made me laugh when I got in with Frank [referring to her husband]. I remember once that he used to have to get up a certain time to go to work and he was a milkman, he was a coalman [inaudible], anywhere on milk. 'Cos he had a duodenal ulcer, so he had to go on milk. So he was up very early in the morning but, so he used to have a sleep in the afternoon. But he wanted to get up to go to one of them shelters [inaudible]. It made me laugh, 'course it was years ago, and I kept thinking, oh [inaudible] Frank [inaudible]. If I wanted ever to forget that fella then, I never have. [both laughing] And then it got very sad because erm 01:09:00like yeah my husband died, you know. We got moved here. Truth is it's only ten years ago, think it is ten years ago. And I sort of just looked at the paper and er this fella had died, you know. And I thought, oh what a shame and I thought, what was you going to do, like what was you going to do. And I thought, well I certainly wasn't going to go after him or anything. That was then and this is now, you know, and I thought, he lived at Clayton, it's a suburb of Manchester but I've never been. And I always say when I'm saying something, and anyway it must be stupid. I think anyway the house would be down and everything, but it shows you how that bloke has stayed in my mind. And once when I was at [name] Station I said to one of these chaps, "If I wanted to go to Clayton, where would 01:10:00I get a bus?" And he says, you know, outside the bus station and this bus is on Market Street--

VB: Oh yes.

ID: And he says, I think it was the 217, I think he said. You get that, takes you up Hyde Road wherever Hyde Road is, I don't know but I know it's around somewhere. I think it's past Piccadilly Station myself. And he says, "That'll take you to Clayton", and I thought, why are you asking silly daft questions like that? So you're not going to go. Even if you went and the street name's still there--and I bet the houses are down. All these new houses, you know. And I seen by the death [inaudible] that this chap lived in er Wythenshawe the-- I've lived in Wythenshawe--

VB: Right.

ID: You know. So I thought, think they must have moved to [glitch on tape].

[End of interview]