Ethel and George Cullum (1 of 2)

Disclaimer: This interview was conducted in 1995 and concerns memories of 1930s life; as such there may be opinions expressed or words used that do not meet today's norms and expectations.

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* Transcript ID: EC-95-220AT001

* CCINTB Transcript IDs: 95-220-12a-ad, 95-220-13a-i

* Tapes: EC-95-220OT001, EC-95-220OT002

* CCINTB Tapes ID: T95-123, T95-124

* Length: 01:02:33

* Spixworth, Norfolk, 25 October 1995: Valentina Bold interviews Ethel and George Cullum

* Transcribed by Joan Simpson/ Standardised by Annette Kuhn

* EC = Ethel Cullum/GC = George Cullum/VB = Valentina Bold

* Notes: First of two interviews with Ethel and George Cullum; Sound Quality: Fair; this interview was originally transcribed in a phonetic manner; the original phonetic version can be accessed through our physical collection - please contact Lancaster University Library for details.

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[Start of Tape One]

[Start of Side A]

[tape introduction by VB; date wrongly given as November 1995 rather than October 1995]

VB: A book ourselves about eh--

EC: Because erm, he wrote up and he [had it?] towards his book, didn't he? [referring to Stephen Peart, author of 'The Picture House in East Anglia']

VB: Yeah. That's right. Erm, I mean he's already done a book about cinemas in East Anglia. But eh, we're more interested with talking to people who went to the cinema. I think he's more interested in--

GC: Yes.

VB: Cinemas themselves.

GC: Yes.

VB: Erm, so that's why I was really delighted when you got in touch. Erm, 'cause from what you were saying it sounds like you were quite a fan. Erm, in the thirties. So, I'll just pop this in here. [tape being set up] That should do it. Erm, I wondered actually if before we talked about the cinema, I could maybe ask 00:01:00you one or two more questions about yourself. Erm, nothing overly personal.

GC: That's all right. S'all right.

VB: Erm, just so I get more of an idea about your own background. [laughs] Eh, 'cause that's very much of interest as well.

EC: We were all poor in them days.

VB: Well you were telling me you came from a--

EC: Everybody was.

VB: Yeah.

EC: Everybody was poor in those days. We're talking about eighty years ago, aren't we?

VB: Yeah.

EC: Or seventy anyway.

VB: Yeah.

EC: And eh, before you switch that on--

VB: Mhm.

EC: I told you that I went to the films when I was twelve.

VB: Yes.

EC: Well I used to go with a younger sister and an older sister. Well my older sister would've been fourteen. So that meant that she wouldn't be there at fourteen. She would have been there at twelve and that made me ten.

VB: Ah I see! So you were a little younger than what you thought before. Okay. Erm. [tape crackly; VB getting out papers]

EC: [talking in background; inaudible]

VB: Ah I see.

EC: So they would give us a penny for us to go, wouldn't they?

VB: I was wondering about that because when you were telling me that--

EC: I don't know how much it was. [tape recording terminates]

[recording recommences]

VB: Erm, more regularly when you were courting or--

GC: Yeah, well actually there was nothing much else to do.

EC: I always went myself--

VB: Mhm.

EC: I used to always go.

VB: Ah I see.

EC: I'm a real, I was a real fan.

VB: Yeah. 'Cause you mentioned erm, loads of the stars when we were talking.

EC: Yes. 'Cause my father wouldn't allow us to go dancing. So that was the only entertainment we could have.

VB: Ah I see.

[tape whistling]

EC: We could have gone dancing. But he wouldn't allow us to dance. So that was 00:03:00the only entertainment. That or going into the pub.

VB: Why was it, if I can ask, I'm just curious. Why was it your father erm, didn't like you to go dancing?

EC: He wouldn't allow us to go out.

GC: Well the trouble was he had seven daughters.

VB: Ah, I see. [laughs] I see.

EC: He thought perhaps we'd be in some trouble or that, I don't know. And eh, I saw the first talkie on the Haymarket with Al Jolson [referring to The Singing Fool]. Saw that. And erm, [pause 2 seconds] and the one at erm... And at the Regent, you saw one picture and then you'd have something on the stage. That would either be someone on a, an organ or else like two comedians or something.

VB: A-ah. So it was quite a--

EC: Yeah. And the Theatre de Luxe, that was another one I went to. I remember 00:04:00pictures I saw on there. Erm, previous to that, I'd seen All Quiet on the Western Front. That was ever such a sad picture. War picture. But at the Theatre de Luxe they had a, a comedy 'Not All [Question?]', and that was on the--

GC: Not So Quiet on the Western Front. That was the title of it.

VB: Mhm. Was that the one with Lew Ayres in it?

GC: Lew Ayres was in All Quiet on the Western Front. Yes. Noah Beery [Note: Noah Beery was not in the cast] and one or two of the old timers were in this one, Not So Quiet on the Western Front. That was more or less a comedy.

EC: All Quiet on the Western Front, Lew Ayres, they hang on a wire netting.

GC: On barbed wire.

VB: Yeah.

EC: And then I saw another one on the Theatre de Luxe. That was a, [pause 2 seconds] a war picture. That was eh, our own Clive Brook, he was an English star. And that was Pola Negri. She was an American but, and erm, that was a, 00:05:00they were at [Aux?], he was fighting for one. So, and they fell in love. That was why that was called Barbed Wire. Because--

VB: Ah, I see.

EC: And I remember that one very plain.

VB: Ah. Do you think the English stars were good in the thirties? Did you like the English stars? Yeah. [pause] 'Cause someone else here you mentioned to me was Claudette Colbert, was someone you liked.

EC: I started to go to the pictures when I was about fifteen. And I went all my life. And eh, erm, when I was sixty, you had a pension book. And I used to go twice a week and you'll get in half price for your pension book. When Mr Cullum 00:06:00retired, see we got a car and we can go out. So, I like a cigarette in the pictures, but he don't smoke.

VB: Ah. [laughs]

EC: So that all finished for that. So, I never went any more after that. So I actually went to pictures till I was seventy.

VB: That's unusual actually. To go--

EC: My son didn't like the pictures.

VB: Yeah.

EC: 'Cause he was an outdoor boy. But the, but the three grandchildren, I used to take them when they were little.

VB: Ah.

EC: But 'course that isn't early enough for you really.

VB: Yeah. Yeah.

GC: Well 'course, the earliest erm, stars that I can remember, 'course it's going back, was erm, they were very fool-- and they were more comedians than they were [actual?], eh, dramatic actors. Was erm, you get Tom Mix. He was the 00:07:00real cowboy. And Douglas Fairbanks. And eh, what was his wife's name? Douglas Fairbanks, who'd he marry?

EC: Well he was married to Mary Pickford.

GC: That's right. Well, that's what I got, this is the name my wife, Mary Pickford. I used to go and see these. I used to go to a picture palace erm, called the Empire.

VB: Ah.

GC: Used to get in there for a penny.

EC: Didn't you get in with a jam jar, George?

GC: Now, that's before my time.

EC: Oh.

GC: They used to get in with jam jars, before my time. But eh, eh, as I say, used to go there Saturdays and sometimes eh, you would have eh, like a series. That would probably go on for about two or three weeks so you would have to go 00:08:00to follow the series. And of course when you're in inside the films, you'd get right into it and you're shouting and giving them warnings: "Look behind you, mate."

VB: [laughs]

GC: You know. All that caper. And you never used to have sweets. As I say, you were hard up, you never had sweets. You'd get erm, carrots. And you'd probably cut them up before you went out. Something to throw at the screen.

EC: Didn't get sweets.

VB: A-ah.

EC: Used to have apples or turnips, didn't we?

GC: Yeah.

VB: A-ah. So you were a lot healthier going into the cinema than--

EC: This woman what used to play the piano, she was a huge woman. She had this great big bust. And eh, as soon as she came in, there'd be an uproar.

VB: [laughs]

EC: 'Cause we knew very well the pictures was gonna start.

GC: Yeah, and if the picture broke down and then all hell was let loose. They'd be shouting and whistling and one thing another. 'Course it used to take a minute or two for them to mend the break.

VB: Mhm.

GC: They were always breaking down.

EC: But I, I expect you wondered where all us lot sleep, did you? Well we were in a three-bedroom house that, that erm, in the First World War 19, 1914, eh, eh... [pause 2 seconds] My eldest brother, see we were all grown up. There was twelve of us. And two years in [between] each of us. Except in the first two, that was fourteen months. Well, my eldest brother went in the war. My eldest sister went in erm, ammunitions at London. My other sister after her went to the Land Army. And my brother went to the Far East in the war. So they were gone. And that left us, you know. But we used to sleep four in a bed.

VB: Ah.

EC: Four in a bed anyway. And erm, we were very happy. Honestly. You used to go 00:10:00in the wood and gather the wood. And we always had a good dinner. Because my father kept rabbits and chickens and we had a goat for the milk. But we all had our jobs. One had to go and get rabbit's food-- [laughs]

VB: [laughs]

EC: Erm, and father had an allotment.

VB: Ah.

EC: So someone else had to go and get the horses' manure. Eh, he also had for a hobby, he used to rear canaries. And they were in our bedroom.

VB: [laughs]

EC: They were in our bedroom. Honestly. Where the kids were sleeping. And another brother used to have to go and get the [mas?] in. And though the chickens laid the eggs, we didn't have any eggs. The canaries had the eggs.

VB: Aw! [laughs] A-ah. So they got the best treatment.

EC: And eh, and another thing. I never remember having a baked chicken when we, 00:11:00that was always boiled. See. That was just stuck in a saucepan and boiled. And then all the vegetables from father's allotment. So that we really did have a good dinner.

VB: Mhm.

EC: Or father would kill a rabbit and all that. But not bake a chicken. That was boiled. So, you know, we were all right.

GC: You couldn't roast it, that would be too old, wouldn't it?

EC: My sister what was older than me, our Linda, she went to service where we lived in the big house. That sister, that sister was there about a year. She didn't like it. So the one older than me, she went in the service at this great big house. And we used to get clothes from them. They used to pass their clothes. And mother had a machine. And she would... And we used to make our own 00:12:00clothes. Make our own knickers, make our own nightclothes. We used to have to sit all round and do all that sort of thing. Father was asleep. He was on eh, night work. So that we didn't make any noise.

VB: It sounds like you had a lot of fun actually, from what you're saying.

EC: And eh, just feel this.

[VB feels bone]

VB: Oh-h!

EC: Feel that bone.

VB: Yes.

EC: Well when we were kiddies, we used to have to go and get wood. For mother's copper fire. Well what we used to, when the branches were dead, we used to get a piece of rope and tie a big stone on it. And you threw it over like that. And then you pulled it down. When this day that, that...

VB: [laughs]

EC: And I've had it ever since.

VB: Aw-w.

EC: But anyway, that doesn't hurt me.

VB: No.

EC: But now my hair has got thin, you can feel it more.

VB: Well it can't have done you much harm anyway. [laughs]

EC: So I could write a book about my family. Honestly. But my dad was a well-educated man. He was born out of wedlock and I expect that's why he was so strict with all us girls. And eh, father's sister, my aunt, she told us girls that father's erm, mother was an aristocrat, you know, for, erm, I don't know whether she was a [teacher?], I don't know, she was an aristocrat. Well anyway, father's father paid a shilling a week, now that's over a hundred years ago, for my father to go to school. You used to have to pay in those days. Well anyway, 00:14:00when he got older, he went in the Army. And he was in India for twelve years, so he got a good education there. And in fact he went to school with our schoolmaster. And I think my John took after my father, but he was very strict. And he was cruel to my brothers. I had one brother what was a lot of trouble. And he used to have a strap hanging on the door. And he used to get the strap. And if we got into any trouble, he lined us all up and, but we never told tales, so we all got a hiding. We had that--

VB: Aw.

EC: Us kids together [inaudible], and we all got a hiding through not saying who it was. But one brother, he was a devil he was. But erm, he was, when we used to 00:15:00have our tea, father had a cane. [knocks with cane] And if you did any talking you'd get a crack on the fingers.

VB: Oh.

EC: But when he was at work, oh that was lovely.

VB: [laughs]

EC: But erm, apart from all that, you know. We were all all right. My John don't know half what I told you. Does he?

GC: No, no.

EC: Like there's nothing to be ashamed of, is it?

VB: No, not at all.

EC: There was hundreds like us, wasn't there?

VB: Erm, as you say.

EC: They all had big families.

VB: Yeah.

EC: But we were very fortunate regards the food. My father's very hardworking man. And when my mother got married, my father wanted to take her to India because he was going to be an interpretator [sic]. What is it? The real word.

GC: Interpreter.

EC: And my mother's mother persuaded her not to go. And I think my father was frustrated, now I'm older. I didn't know when I was younger. But now I'm older and I can see it, he must've been frustrated, with a good education like he had. And got all these kids round. And all he got to do was work his guts out, hadn't he? He never drank. Most of the men in them days used to have all the weekend. They'd work all the week, then they'd have a thing in the pubs. But my father never did that. He was always working. Either on the allotment or doing something else. And that's what I think. And every time my mother had a 00:17:00child, she used to get a hiding off my father. And that's what I think now I'm older. And my older sisters, they never, wouldn't say a good word about him. 'Cause they knew he was more stricter with the older ones and as the younger ones come along, he mellowed a bit. But when I got older I could see, I knew the man was frustrated, weren't he?

VB: Mhm.

EC: So course mother never went. See this is all mother had told us. And then eh, her mother, my grandmother that would be, the English women what got in, they all die young. But mother lived to ninety-three.

VB: Oh well, that's a good age.

EC: She was lovely woman my mother. She was brought up in a, eh, in a Catholic orphanage. Her and a brother. And she lived at Woolwich. And father was stationed at Woolwich. So 'course eh, that's how he met her.

VB: Ah I see.

EC: And he's ten years older than her. So when they got married, he went a year younger and she went a year older.

VB: Ah.

EC: But her mother didn't want her to marry him at all. But anyway, when my mother had five children, he went after another woman. [pause 2 seconds] And anyway they made it all up. And she moved to Sprowston where we lived. And she had seven more kids after that.

VB: Oh, wow! [laughs]

EC: So she had exciting life, you know.

VB: Did you parents ever go to the cinema?

EC: Eh?

VB: Did your parents ever go to the pictures?

GC: Did they ever go to the pictures?

EC: Yes, they did.

VB: Yeah.

EC: See, as the family got older, they were able to answer father back, weren't they? And then eh, mother and father used to go to the pictures where I went.

VB: Ah!

EC: Yeah, the buses were running then. We didn't have any buses when I was a kid. Yeah, and the people where we lived, they were astonished 'cause mothers and fathers didn't go out then, did they? And they used to go, didn't they George?

GC: Mhm.

EC: Father died when he was seventy and my mother was sixty.

VB: Mhm.

EC: So she had a free life and she went back to her Catholic religion. Which she daren't, didn't do all the while she... That's why she had so many children perhaps, 'cause she was a Catholic.

VB: Mhm.

EC: I don't know. Or whether there weren't nothing to prevent it in them days, was there?

VB: Mhm. [pause 3 seconds] 'Cause I was interested when you said getting the bus. I was wondering how you did go to the cinema. Was it mainly by bus?

GC: No. Where she lived, she had about, mhm, about ten minutes' walk. And then she could catch a tram.

VB: Ah!

GC: Yeah, well that's when the trams were running. When she was younger. And the trams used to go right...used to drop them outside the picture palace where she used to go.

VB: Ah I see.

GC: Yeah. But course when they did away with the trams and introduced buses into the city then...

[tape cuts out]

[End of Side A]

[Start of Side B]

VB: Yeah.

GC: Yeah.

VB: Erm, I mean I found some photographs of some of the older cinemas. I don't know if they're ones that you went to. Erm, there's one of the Electric [Theatre] actually.

GC: Yeah.

VB: I remember you mentioning that.

GC: Yeah. First World War.

VB: Yeah.

GC: First World War, was the Regent and the Electric.

VB: Yeah.

GC: Did eh, you were talking to people about cinemas--

VB: Yeah.

GC: Was one ever mentioned that eh, was on St Stephen's Road?

EC: I went there a lot.

VB: Don't think so.

EC: I went there a lot.

GC: Yeah well, 'course, when the cinemas first, were first started, it was like a magic lantern show wasn't it? That was what the first cinemas were--

VB: Mhm.

GC: And they had one of those, a place, I don't remember it. That was before my time. But they had one of those eh, in St Stephen's Road [probably referring to Victoria Hall]. There used to be a station there called Victoria Station, at the bottom of Queen's Road. And they had one there. But eh, I remember it being talked about, because my father's uncle kept a pub at the corner of Queen's Road. And that's how I come, came to know about it.

VB: Ah I see.

GC: There's also another one which was a very small one, ran by a man named, he 00:22:00was only a young man at that time. Was eh, Warminger [referring to Alfred Warminger], in Northumberland Street. That was run in some of the public house [probably referring to the Globe], I think the public house skittle alley. We used to have what they call skittle alleys attached to pubs years ago.

EC: That's the Mayfair. That ain't the one, that's been all altered. When we used to go, eh, there were two iron gates there.

VB: Ah.

EC: See they made that eh, the Mayfair. Then I used to go there when I went to work. Now that's the Electric Theatre, isn't it? No, that's on Prince of Wales Road, that is.

GC: Yeah.

EC: That is. Next to the Regent.

GC: Yeah.

[pause 2 seconds]

GC: The Capitol, [George Plumb?]. No that wouldn't be the Capitol. Surely.

EC: Yeah.

GC: Oh wait a minute. I'm looking at the wrong one. The Mayfair.

EC: I used to go to the pictures straight from work. First house.

GC: Yeah, this is the Mayfair. The Capitol. This Capitol, we lived right near there when we were married.

VB: A-ah.

EC: Oh the Gaumont, Haymarket. Yeah. I expect that was the Gaumont when I saw The Merry Widow, George. I should think.

GC: The old Hippodrome, yeah. Well that was time from the vaudeville, music hall.

EC: This is a bit old-fashioned.

VB: Ah I see.

EC: That wasn't as modern as the others.

VB: Yeah.

EC: The seats were all close and that.

GC: Yeah, the Gaumont, Haymarket. Mhm.

EC: I don't know what the name of that was. We just used to say we're going to the pictures.

VB: Right.

EC: [inaudible]

GC: I worked on, I worked on one of the old eh, picture palaces when that was done away with. The Thatched.

VB: Mhm.

GC: It was called the Thatched because that had a thatched roof. And eh, that was taken over by eh, Bond's it was, which is now Lewis's. Yeah. And eh, they erm, Bond's took it over and they made a restaurant and showroom out of it.

VB: Yeah.

GC: Yeah and I worked on that when they converted it. And I got infested with fleas!

VB: Oh-h.

GC: Yeah. They kept, that had a beautiful floor. The old cinema floor, what used, before that was a cinema, it was a dance hall. And that had a beautiful floor. So to protect the floor they kept the carpets down. And eh, when we done all the heavy work, 'course they took the carpets up. And I remember going home, 00:25:00my mother said to me, she says, "Change your clothes." We had outside toilet at the time so I had to go in the outside toilet and change all my clothes and everything. And she hung them out on the line. Eh, my brother he could blame because he got bitten with fleas.

VB: Oh.

GC: I used to bring all these fleas home. 'Course, at that time of day we didn't used to sleep in pyjamas, you'd sleep in your shirt! The same thing as you probably been wearing. You didn't have a lot of clothes. Because [inaudible] fleas were in bed.

VB: [laughs]

GC: That was my recollection of the Thatched.

VB: [laughs] Ah.

EC: I brought a [sticker?], actually. [possibly referring to album or cuttings book]

[pause 3 seconds]

VB: Ah.

EC: That's the Carlton. I don't know if you've got that, have you?

VB: Erm, I don't think I have. No actually. That looks quite a grand one that.

EC: There it is.

GC: Yeah, well, there were about four, four cinemas--

EC: This is the Carlton, look.

VB: Ah.

EC: That's a bigger one--

VB: Yeah.

EC: If you want it.

VB: That would be great. Yes, if you don't mind.

EC: See this is the first one, where I wrote to this bloke, didn't I?

VB: Right.

EC: But erm, that won't take up so much room will it?

VB: That would be great. Yes. If you don't mind.

EC: No, when I saw it, I thought to myself well, eh, you might, you know, want it.

VB: That would be great. Yes. 'Cause I haven't seen this.

EC: There's another one here. That was in Northumberland Street [possibly referring to the Enterprise Cinema]. These have opened up since that letter came. And eh, is that one you talking about, George?

GC: Yeah, yeah. [pre-war?] [inaudible]

EC: Today. Haymarket [referring to the Gaumont]. Well you got that one.

VB: Mhm.

EC: But erm,

VB: That's very useful, yeah. Thanks very much.

GC: Yeah, [the time the Carlton?] [inaudible] --the Capitol was built. The Regal on Dereham Road. And there was another one erm. [pause 2 seconds] Forget the name of that. Was it the Ritz? [yawns] [inaudible] And eh, also, there was the Carlton. The Regal. Capitol. The Ritz. Yeah they were the four.

VB: Mhm.

GC: They were all built about that time.

EC: There's another one here. Look. If you just read what that says.

VB: Yeah.

EC: I don't know nothing about that but I cut that out 'cause, you know, in case you'd like to see it.

VB: It's about the Enterprise Cinema.

EC: Mhm. That's years ago, isn't it?

VB: It is. Yeah. That's amazing seeing this, like the little one there as well as--

EC: Yeah. Early days.

VB: A-ah.

GC: Well you don't want it, do you, Ethel? You don't want that, do you?

EC: No. Certainly. I know I don't want it. I just got it in case she might want it--

VB: Well that's very kind of you again.

EC: Yes. Certainly.

VB: That's very useful.

EC: I mean I know all about this. I don't want these--

VB: Yeah. [laughs]

EC: To tell me, do I?

VB: That's right. I mean I didn't realise there were quite so many cinemas around then.

GC: Yeah, yeah.

EC: You take 'em my dear.

VB: Thanks very much.

EC: Eh, the other bits, they got no pictures so that wouldn't interest you.

GC: 'Course the old Odeon, eh, the old Odeon was eh--

EC: In Botolph Street--

GC: Was in Botolph Street. They pulled that down and 'course built the present Odeon...

VB: I see.

GC: Yeah.

VB: Did you see any of the cinemas when they were being opened? Did you see any of the cinema openings or..?

GC: No.

EC: No. No I didn't, no. But I, we used to, I used to have to go straight from work. We weren't allowed to go late at night. And I worked, I worked in a boot work, a boot factory, but in the middle of the city.

VB: Ah I see.

EC: So I could go and see any, any one.

VB: Ah.

EC: But mostly I used to go the Theatre de Luxe. That was the nearest.

VB: Yes.

EC: And eh, but I liked the Regent very much.

VB: What was the Regent like inside? What was the Regent like inside?

GC: A really big place. I suppose that would hold what? Five hundred people. Probably a few more. They had eh, it had eh, two floors. Like eh, the ground floor and then they did have the raised gallery at the back.

VB: Mhm.

EC: But the Hippodrome. We used to have a Hippodrome. Well then that got eh, we used to go up to the gods and see that. Well then that got altered into a picture house. So that was the finish of that. Then we used to go together there, didn't we?

GC: The finish of that, that got bombed during the war.

VB: Ah I see.

GC: Yeah.

EC: But the, I used to love the, I loved the Regent. Well then later on, that got so that eh, you had three different films you would pick from. A, B, C, D. The last one I saw was eh, that singer. With the black hair. Eh, she took the part of eh, Billie Holliday, drug addict [referring to Lady Sings the Blues].

VB: Oh yes! Erm, Diana Ross.

EC: That's right.

VB: Oh that was a good one.

EC: That's the last one I saw.

VB: Yes.

EC: That's a good while ago isn't it? But that ain't in the thirties.

VB: No. No.

GC: No.

VB: It's erm, must be a good fifteen--

EC: Well it getting on for twenty--

VB: Twenty years ago.

EC: 'Cause I mean, yeah. I would think that's twenty years ago.

VB: Yeah.

EC: 'Cause I ain't been to the pictures for twenty years, have I? But that was a nice film, wasn't it?

VB: Aw it was great. Yes.

EC: Did you see that?

VB: I did, yes.

EC: Where she writ [wrote] on the glass with her... 'Course she's a nice singer, in't she?

VB: Yes. That's a great film.

EC: Would you like a cup of tea dear?

VB: That would be lovely. Yes.

EC: Like a cup of tea, George?

GC: I'll make it. Do you take sugar?

VB: Eh, no. And no milk either. Just as it comes.

GC: Just a cup of tea.

VB: Yeah.

EC: I'm sorry I can't hear. Some days I can hear all right. Now George never talks to me as if I'm deaf. I say, George, you should talk to me as if I'm a deaf person but he doesn't. And he's got a very soft voice. And that really annoys me. I mean it ain't no pleasure to be deaf, you know.

VB: Mhm.

EC: That's very embarrassing at times. And I felt ever so guilty 'cause I couldn't hear what you said yesterday. But the day before that was lovely, wasn't it?

VB: Yeah.

EC: That just all depends. No it ain't no pleasure at all. Would you like a bit of cake?

VB: Erm, tea would be fine actually. I had lunch before I came.

EC: I do my own cooking. That's my own.

VB: Yeah. I'm fine just now thanks. I had quite a big lunch so--

EC: And, I got arthritis in my knee, so I can't do normally. And George does all the work. But I do the cooking and look after all the food. And I do the washing. And I can do the ironing. And I can dust. But, nothing I can't get on my knee.

VB: Mhm.

EC: Very good husband. [pause 2 seconds] At times.

VB: [laughs]

EC: But erm, he doesn't know I'm hearing. And I say, "It's no good George. If you don't speak louder I can't hear what you say." He says, "Well I'm not going to shout." But I mean you should speak louder for deaf people, shouldn't you? [pause 2 seconds] But that all depends how you feel. Sixty-four years we've been together.

VB: That's amazing.

EC: Long while, isn't?

VB: It is.

EC: I did tell you we were going to have a party in February, didn't I?

VB: You did, yes.

EC: If I live that long. I had a fall since I've been talking to you. It's all storms out there. And George was watering the garden and I stepped down and I fell flat on my face.

VB: Aw dear.

EC: All my nose, my eyes. In fact I can't wear my glasses because my nose is still sore.

VB: I can see it looks a little swollen, yes.

EC: And eh, all up here. Hurt my shoulder. Hurt my poor legs. Aw.

VB: Aw dear.

EC: Brought all them veins all up.

VB: Oh. It looks painful.

EC: But erm, I got very bad varicose veins. I walk with a stick. But otherwise, as long as I'm all right up top--

VB: Yes.

EC: I still do my knitting. And I do the machine, I do all my knitting. And eh, 00:34:00but since I've done this, I got a bit of a job on the machine seeing. But I bet that'll get better and I'm waiting to go and have my eyes done. But it's no good while I can't wear my glasses--

VB: Yeah.

EC: Is it? So I got to hang on.

VB: Yes.

[pause 2 seconds]

EC: What you think of our Norfolk people?

VB: I've thoroughly enjoyed being here. It's great.

EC: You've been seeing other people, haven't you? But I mean, on the whole?

VB: Erm, very friendly like yourself eh--

EC: Well we got a reputation for not being friendly.

VB: I don't know why.

EC: But we are.

VB: I don't know why.

EC: Erm, I used to help a woman in her shop and she came from Surrey. Richmond, Surrey.

VB: Mhm.

EC: And when they knew she was coming to Norwich she took a big [shout?]. "Ooh," they said, "You won't like Norwich! Norwich people are awful." Anyway I went and worked with her and eh, she was telling me this. But she said, "Honestly, I think the Norfolk people are lovely." She say, "You're inclined to be a bit abrupt. But you know where you are with--"

VB: Mhm.

EC: "Norfolk people."

VB: Well as I say I've been very warmly welcomed.

EC: I'm a friendly person but he's more quiet, George is. But I'm very friendly. I think that's true of a big family, isn't it?

VB: Mhm.

EC: But I've only got one sister left now. I had a brother eight years old, got killed in a motor car. And my little sister died when she was two.

VB: Mhm.

EC: So erm, that brings us up to ten. Then our Bridie went, 19. She's eighty-four. [Mabel?] is eighty-five and I'm eighty-seven. And eh, she's like me. She uses a stick, so I don't know which one is going first. [laughs]

VB: Oh.

EC: But she lives at Norwich. I don't see her much. She does come. She comes for the day and has meals and that.

VB: Mhm.

EC: And my son, he doesn't live far away. He got us this little bungalow.

VB: A-ah.

EC: Actually this is John's bungalow. We don't even pay any rent for it. Good boy. Well we had a flat, our own flat. And we were in the middle. Well that got so that I couldn't walk up and down the stairs.

VB: Mhm.

EC: So anyway, John come over and he said, 'Look mum. Before you get stuck in the flat, I think you ought to move," he said. "Because once you can't get up and down you'll be stuck in." So he said, "I'll look out for a nice little bungalow" where he lived. So George sold our bungalow, our flat. But that wasn't enough money to buy this, so John puts the rest. Good boy. Well, he's the only 00:37:00one, so George said, "Well the best thing to do, John, is have it on your name." 'Cause eventually he would have got it. So that's eh, he didn't like it at first. George say, "You never know if anything might happen. Then you lose the bungalow." So the house is John's. But we don't pay no rent or anything. So he's quite a good son.

VB: Very kind.

EC: So he said we were good parents. We sacrificed a bit when he went to university. But mind you, we didn't mind.

GC: Here y'are.

VB: That's lovely. Thanks very much.

GC: Hope it's not too strong for you.

EC: Do you have lemon in that?

VB: Erm, if you have some lemon.

GC: I haven't got a lemon. I got some lemon juice.

VB: Erm, I'll be all right with this. That's fine.

EC: Only my nephew has lemon in it. Don't he George?

[general conversation]

VB: This is lovely.

EC: Thank you dear. Thanks very much.

VB: That's a lovely tea service, this.

EC: Eh?

VB: A lovely cup and saucer.

GC: That's just one off that is.

VB: Ah.

EC: I have that little cup if I don't want a big one.

VB: Mhm. That's lovely. Thanks very much.

EC: If my niece comes and she sees that, she says, "Ooh you're using my little cup then."

VB: [laughs]

EC: But I don't always use it. She likes to think I use it. Mhm. [pause 3 seconds] She likes the Norwich people.

GC: Do you?

VB: Yeah. Very much.

GC: They're a bit withdrawn at times, you know. They've got to know you first before they make friends with you.

VB: Mhm.

GC: Don't know whether you found that.

VB: Erm, as I was saying I've found people very friendly.

GC: Yeah, yeah.

VB: Maybe it's because I'm from the east coast myself, I'm used to people taking a minute to make their minds up and then erm, being nice and friendly. Eh, but I've found people very helpful and--

EC: Yes.

VB: Like yourself.

EC: Well why not. They must just be like that, as the other way.

VB: Absolutely.

GC: That's what I say.

VB: Yeah.

[pause 3 seconds]

VB: The town's lovely as well.

GC: Mhm.

VB: I've been enjoying--

GC: What, Norwich?

VB: Yeah.

EC: It's a bit lonely for me now--

GC: Do you drive?

VB: I don't. No.

GC: How'd you get here, then?

VB: Eh, bus.

GC: Bus.

VB: Yeah.

GC: So you gotta bus back?

VB: I will get one. Yeah.

GC: Well I'll give you a lift back if you like. I got a car.

VB: E-erm,

EC: Yeah, he doesn't mind.

VB: Well it's very kind of you to offer but I mean I'd be fine getting the bus if...

GC: Well I don't know. I don't know how the buses run here. Whether they run frequent or what.

VB: I think they're about every forty minutes or something like that.

GC: Mhm. Mhm.

VB: Aye.

GC: No, I don't mind running you.

VB: It's very kind of you to offer.

EC: He is like that.

GC: I mean whereabouts do you want to go?

VB: Erm, anywhere near the city centre would be fine. 'Cause I'll do a couple of things in the town.

GC: Uhuh.

VB: Erm, so just anywhere round the middle of the town would suit me fine.

GC: Yeah. Yeah. I'll drop you off at the top of St Stephen's, how would that be?

VB: That would be perfect.

GC: You ain't putting him out at all. That's what he does all the while. He looks after our family. Anyone gotta go to the hospital, he takes them up, he gets them in. So he doesn't mind.

VB: It's very kind of you to offer. Thanks. I'll accept then. [laughs]

GC: No, Norwich is not the best of places to eh, to drive in.

VB: Mhm.

GC: Terrible.

VB: There seem to be a lot of one-way systems.

GC: Yeah. In the one-way system you'd be going round and round and round. Funnily enough, I was in King's Lynn. The wife she'd gone to the toilet and talking to a fella, his wife was in the toilet. And he said, "I've just come from one of the worst places I've ever been in my life." "Where's that?" He said, "Norwich."

VB: [laughs]

GC: I said, "Oh. What's wrong with Norwich?" He said, "Well I got in their one-way system," he said, "and I never thought I was gonna get out! I've been through here before!"

VB: [laughs]

GC: And he said, "I went round that three times."

EC: He come from the Midlands, he did, didn't he George?

GC: Yes. He'd been in Yarmouth. He'd been on holiday in Yarmouth. And he came through Norwich and thought he'd just stop in there. And he got into the one-way system. Round and round, you know.

VB: Aye. I think it's worse if you don't know the town as well. If he was coming in--

GC: Yeah. Well he didn't, you see.

VB: Yeah.

GC: That's bad for me now, going up there now, lot of the [one-way system?] I never go in Norwich tell you the truth.

EC: He grumbles about the parking.

VB: Mhm. I can imagine.

EC: If we want to do any sh--, clothes I go to Lowestoft.

VB: Mhm.

EC: You've got the Home Stores, Marks and Spencers, [Chads?], it's quite a good place.

VB: I was there actually last week. I was in Lowestoft.

EC: Were you?

GC: We were in Lowestoft last week.

VB: Yes.

GC: We went Tuesday.

VB: Ah! I probably passed you without knowing. I was in erm...

EC: I mean George he don't go too far now.

VB: Mhm.

EC: He don't go out at all night times, do you George? Well he's eighty-five and he do well to drive. And erm, we used to go to King's Lynn but there and back, that's eighty mile.

VB: Mhm.

EC: So I think you might as well go to Lowestoft as to go all that way to King's Lynn.

VB: Mhm.

EC: Because actually there's more shops at Lowestoft.

VB: Very good for shopping.

EC: Yeah. We don't bother but they had a market there on Tuesday.

VB: A-ah!

EC: But we don't bother about the market. But if anyone interested, then you got Tesco's if you want to do any shopping, in't you? So we don't mind Yarmouth, do we George? But they got more shops in Lowestoft.

VB: Mhm. It's a lovely town as well, looking out to the sea and everything--

EC: Yes. We went to Southwold about three weeks ago. And oh! That's absolutely beautiful.

VB: Mhm.

EC: Lovely place. I like Southwold. [pause 2 seconds] Oh well I hope we've been some help.

VB: Very much so erm, I mean it's great for me to hear about the cinemas from, you know, people like yourselves that really know about it. Erm, it's just been great. Thanks very much. It's eh, I mean I brought along some pictures as well that you might like to see erm, from films of the thirties. Eh...

GC: Oh, she hasn't got it now, but she had a book. I should think it had about eight hundred pages all about films and film stars.

EC: Seen this one.

GC: All the old ones.

VB: Yeah. Were Astaire and Rogers people that you liked?

GC: You weren't, you weren't eh [at home?] this lunchtime then?

VB: Sorry?

GC: You weren't anywhere near a television this lunchtime?

VB: I wasn't. No.

GC: You missed, you missed a good interview with Tommy Steele on Pebble Mill.

VB: Oh-h. Actually, I did catch a wee bit of that before I came out. It was great.

GC: Oh yeah.

VB: When he was doing his show in--

GC: Yeah.

EC: Ginger Rogers is right fat now. She was in a bath chair the last--

GC: Talking about the people who trained him to dance. Gene Kelly. And Fred Astaire. He said but Gene Kelly erm...

EC: 'Dancin' in the Rain' [referring to Singin' in the Rain].

GC: When he went to see Astaire eh, he said, "Can you tap dance?" He said, "Yeah." He said, "Give us a song." He said, "I know who taught you that. That Irishman."

VB: [laughs]

GC: He said, "And he can't do it."

VB: [laughs]

GC: And he said that erm, Fred Astaire, he said he was a hard taskmaster.

VB: I bet.

GC: He'd been dancing to mirrors. Everywhere was mirrors and he was dancing in front of these mirrors. He said if you can dance in front of the mirrors, he said, [you'll come to?] perfection, he said. Nobody-- [inaudible]

EC: Actually I liked Gene Kelly best.

VB: A-ah.

GC: Mhm. Yes there was a very good programme on that.

VB: Mhm. Yeah I was sorry I only caught a minute of it because I left eh, it was really interesting.

GC: Yeah. He's still looking very young.

VB: Amazing! Yes. He's so happy and, just, you couldn't help but like him.

GC: No. Sometimes I catch him like Charlie Chaplin.

EC: Did you see Gone with the Wind?

VB: Oh, yes.

EC: That's lovely. She's a lovely looking girl, wasn't she? Mhm.

VB: Did you like erm, Olivia de Havilland?

EC: Yeah.

VB: Yeah.

EC: Yeah. But she wasn't in that was she?

VB: Erm--

EC: No. That was other star in that. Erm, Olivier's wife.

VB: Erm, Vivien Leigh.

EC: Uhuh.

VB: But I think Olivia de Havilland was the sister, wasn't she? Erm...

EC: Eh--

VB: Eh, Mel, erm, you know the one she was eh--

EC: She was eh, Howard's--

VB: That's right.

EC: The one that got married. She took [inaudible], she took--

VB: Married. Yeah. That's right.

EC: That's a lovely picture, in't it?

VB: Amazing.

EC: Ah, and I like Clark Gable.

VB: Ah. [laughs] Don't what else I've got here erm, there's one from eh, Deanna Durbin. I don't know if she was one--

EC: Now, I never. Deanna Durbin. I used to see her when she was little, you know. But eh, I don't remember.

VB: No.

EC: I don't actually remember that picture. 'Cause she's eh, something to do with the government now, isn't she? She's a bit of an ambassador [referring to Shirley Temple].

VB: I think that's right. She went into--

EC: Or she was.

GC: Yeah.

EC: I remember seeing her [arrested in Tarzan?] [possibly referring to Shirley Temple in Kid 'n Africa, 1933] My family laughed at me, you know, 'cause they used to say eh, if they didn't remember, "Wait till you see Ethel."--

VB: [laughs]

EC: And say, "Who was that who played in so-and-so?", but I remembered.

VB: Yeah.

EC: Well when I went to work, when I was fourteen, when I didn't have money to buy books. But there was a young girl about sixteen. And she used to buy the 'Picturegoer'.

VB: I was going to ask you about that.

EC: And erm, she used to pass it on to me. So that's where I saw, you sort of got all the news, didn't you?

VB: 'Cause I was wondering when you said you were interested in the lives of the stars if you read that. A-ah! And then I've got one here of eh...

EC: Is this Bette Davis?

VB: Joan, Joan Crawford.

EC: Joan Crawford.

VB: Yeah.

EC: She had big eyebrows, didn't she? She was a bit hard looking, weren't she?

VB: Yeah.

GC: I was surprised by her private lifestyle, though. She was not a very good mother was she?

VB: I think that's right. She was supposed to be a bit cruel and...

GC: Yeah.

VB: Yeah.

GC: Rather surprised.

VB: Yeah. Did you like Bette Davis as well? You mentioned her.

EC: Oh I like Bette Davis. Yeah. She played in The Little Foxes. She played where she was on a boat [probably referring to Now, Voyager]. I think Claude Rains was her husband, and she got on with [inaudible]. I've seen a lot of her pictures.

VB: Yeah.

EC: I couldn't tell you all I have seen, honestly. Oh yeah.

VB: [laughs]

EC: But they didn't come out till later. We didn't see them when we were kids.

VB: A-ah! That's interesting.

EC: Erm, the comedian we used to see most, when we went to the cinema, his name was Harry, we used to say Harry Lemon. But that could've been Lehman. He was a comedian. And also the erm, eh, what they call--

GC: The best comedian 'course was Harold Lloyd.

EC: Yeah but he wasn't in our young days, George, was he?

GC: He was always in trouble, wasn't he? [inaudible]

EC: He was English, wasn't he?

GC: Then 'course you got Charlie Chaplin, Chester.

VB: Ah.

GC: [Conklin?]. And you got all those. You got Buster Keaton in these sort of days. Then you got the Keystone Cops.

VB: Ah.

EC: Yeah we used to see them. Pearl, Pearl eh--

GC: Pearl White.

EC: Pearl White. Tied up on the train lines.

GC: Yeah.

VB: Ah.

GC: Oh eh, Edward G. Robinson. Yeah.

VB: Was he someone you liked? Did you like Edward G. Robinson?

EC: Ye-es. The last picture I saw him in was with eh, Frank Sinatra [referring to A Hole in the Head].

VB: Ah!

EC: And he was comical in that. That Frank Sinatra. And he kept getting in that chair.

[End of Side B]

[End of Tape One]

[Start of Tape Two]

[Start of Side A]

VB: Yeah.

GC: Well there was lots of them. I mean,

EC: George Formby.

GC: Lots of 'em were popular but they never were actors were they?

EC: That's Formby isn't it?

VB: Yeah.

GC: When you take Robert Mitchum. He's very popular man but he never did act, did he?

VB: Yeah. I know what you mean. I mean--

GC: Yeah. He's stereotyped.

VB: Yeah.

GC: You got another one too. What was his name?

EC: I used to like Edward Horton. He was a comical man.

GC: You know his face never changed. [pause 2 seconds] Can't think of his name now. He's an American actor. Here's Robert Mitchum here.

EC: I tell you one of my favourite actresses was Eve Arden.

VB: A-ah.

EC: She never got the man. She was always eh, sort of in between. And very wicked.

VB: Yeah.

EC: She's still about.

VB: Ah.

EC: I seen her in a film not long ago.

VB: Erm, and then another one. Different.

EC: That's Shi--, is that Shirley Temple?

VB: It is. Yeah. Erm, and my last one I think, it's not a very good one but it's erm, Gracie Fields, I think in one of hers eh--

GC: Mhm. She didn't make many films, did she?

VB: Was she someone that you liked? Was she popular, Gracie Fields?

GC: E-erm, [pause 2 seconds] No, I wouldn't think so. I wouldn't think so.

EC: Erm, I can't see who this is.

VB: Erm, as I say it's not a very good photo. It's Gracie Fields.

EC: I should think [that's English?].

VB: Yes it is. Erm--

EC: This business.

VB: Yeah. I think it's from Sing As We Go. But I may be wrong.

GC: Mhm.

VB: Did you notice a difference when you say that's an English film? Was there a difference between the English films and the Americans?

EC: Oh yeah. I mean they don't have taps and things like that in America.

VB: Yeah.

EC: More modern. Now if you get a good old English film you know, that takes some beating, don't it?

GC: Yeah. Take Peter Sellers and the crowd that were in I'm All Right Jack.

VB: Yeah.

EC: I tell you another thing that I used to know. Now, eh, all our English stars, I used to know who they were married to. That used to be Chrissie White and Henry Edwards. Erm, Edna Best and erm, [Herbert] Marshall. Dorothy Gray and eh, you know [possibly referring to Harry Joe Brown], I knew all them.

VB: Ah. So you kept well up to date.

EC: Ye-es. Yeah.

VB: Uhuh.

EC: D'you want to see 'em, George?

GC: It would be a bit of a job now.

EC: I don't--

GC: To keep pace with the modern eh, the modern actors and actresses. They changing partners ever so often.

VB: [laughs]

GC: They like change clothes, isn't it?

VB: That's true. [laughs]

EC: Did you ever see The Blue Lamp?

VB: I haven't. No.

EC: Dirk Bogarde in it. Did you ever see that?

VB: I haven't seen that, no.

EC: Oh that was lovely. That was a lovely film. And eh, Jack Warner and eh Dirk Bogarde is erm, he was eh, [pause 2 seconds] he always taked [sic] a nice part, he took awful part. Now he was, I always think my John is like him.

VB: He is actually, when you say that. Yes. Especially his--

EC: He's a lot older than John.

VB: Yeah.

EC: But when he was younger. But he's back in England again now, isn't he?

VB: Yeah.

EC: Dirk Bogarde.

VB: Yeah.

EC: He's an author.

VB: I see--

EC: That's my three grandsons.

VB: Ah. Yeah, I see what you mean. Especially round the eyes.

EC: Yeah. And they had dark hair and brown eyes.

VB: Dark eyes. Thanks.

EC: You didn't recognise him, did you George? Not that I, I couldn't recognise him. You've got to sort all that out have you?

VB: Yes. [laughs] I have.

EC: Is that shorthand or longhand?

VB: It's longhand. As I say, I'm a wee bit distrustful of my tape recorder because I've been having one or two problems with it. So I thought I might as well just take some notes.

GC: You're blessed with a good [hand?], are you?

VB: I'm afraid I'm not, [laughs] no.

EC: So we've been some help then?

VB: Very, very much. You really have.

EC: It's nice knowing you anyway.

VB: Well you too. I mean thanks very much for giving me your time and your knowledge. It's been great.

GC: It's just looking back really.

EC: Well if you liked anybody. I thought when I wrote that letter to that author, you know eh--

VB: Mhm.

EC: I told him I was seventy-eight. He said--

GC: Eighty-seven.

EC: So he'll have to excuse any mistakes I make.

VB: Mhm.

EC: And eh, I got eh, I didn't hear nothing from him but I heard from you.

VB: Yes. 'Cause he passed on, as I say, he passed on the letters to us erm--

GC: Mhm.

VB: Eh, 'cause his piece was really to try and get in touch with people because it's always more difficult in you're in a different city--

GC: Yeah.

VB: To make contact. So he very kindly agreed to erm, put something in the paper for us.

EC: I mean a lot a people my age say they aren't so bright up the top.

VB: Mhm.

EC: And I think I'm pretty good for my age.

VB: Well for any age, I would say. You've got a very good memory.

EC: Yeah, I'm eighty-seven.

VB: Yeah.

EC: I'm awkward in some things. Some words I can't pronounce. And if I write a 00:56:00letter, I've got to have a dictionary, because eh, I say the letter, the word, but it don't look right to me.

VB: Mhm.

EC: So I have a dictionary to make sure that is right. Sometimes I'm right and sometimes it's a good job I had a dictionary.

VB: Yeah.

EC: I'll admit that. As you get older, your brain does, but.. George is lot better than what I am. He's sitting doing crossword every day. But I don't.

VB: Mhm.

GC: Well, you keep your mind active.

EC: He reads.

GC: You learn. You never stop learning.

EC: He reads more than what I do.

VB: Mhm.

EC: But you got to keep yourself going or I mean, if you don't, I mean you just got to sit in your chair and, [pause 2 seconds] and fizzle out?

VB: Mhm. Well you've certainly got a lovely, a lovely home here. The view is just beautiful.

GC: Yeah.

EC: But I do get a bit lonely because George is out in the front and he's got his garage. Well everyone sees him. But I'm sitting here and see, I can't walk. So I rely on George's car.

VB: Mhm.

EC: But I go a hairdresser. I go once a fortnight. But I can just walk up there and back, on my own.

VB: Yeah.

EC: See I even try and keep myself all right.

VB: Yeah. It's not so bad in this sort of weather.

EC: No.

VB: But once the winter sets in...

EC: We go out nearly every morning. We go somewhere so that I can have a walk.

VB: Ah.

EC: And ehrm, we go to Sheringham.

GC: We were at Sheringham yesterday. Yeah.

EC: And that keeps him so that he can keep driving his car.

VB: Mhm.

EC: 'Cause I know what he'll do once he doesn't drive his car.

GC: Mhm. She'll be house-bound, won't she?

EC: He goes fishing. For his hobby. I knit.

VB: It's nice to have something like that--

EC: Well you've got to have something like that.

VB: That relaxes you.

EC: My daughter-in-law's very good. She come and she says, "What're you knitting at the moment, mum?" I say, "Tell you the truth, I ain't doing anything." But she buys me wool, she likes to think that I'll keep active. She's erm, erm, not a home help. She's to do with help, isn't she?

GC: Social, social services.

EC: Social service.

VB: Yeah.

GC: Social welfare actually. With Broadland District Council.

VB: Mhm.

GC: And if John comes in and I'm cooking, he'll say, "Good mum. What're you cooking?"

VB: [laughs]

GC: And if I'm making a pie often I give him one. You know. [pause 2 seconds] But I find now that if I stand out there cooking, I've got to fit it in the oven and then I've got to come and sit down. But I pull this chair up and put my feet up. See I found it like that in my legs.

VB: Mhm.

EC: But eh, anyway, I have a sit down. And George says, "Come and sit down for five minutes," which I do. And eh, that goes off and I carry on again. But George can cook, can't you George?

GC: Yeah. Yeah. I did--

EC: That was, that was a laugh. When, when eh George retired, I told a lot of people this. Eh, he come home one day cause he'd had a nervous breakdown, George had. Through work.

VB: Mhm.

EC: So he decided that he was going to retire early. He had the chance so, come on, he'd say, I retired. "Ooh," I said. "Good. Now sit down George. I would like a talk with you."

VB: [laughs]

EC: I think [he felt, this and that?]

VB: [laughs]

EC: So I said, "Now you're retiring, George, I'm retiring with you." 'What d'you mean?" I say, "Exactly what I say. If you're retired, I'm retired. So it mean to say, we'll halve the work." But previous to that, my sister's husband had 01:00:00retired. He'd go out every morning and have a drink. Leave my sister cooking the dinner. Come home and have a lovely dinner. Then he'd fall asleep. So I said to my sister, I said, "Well when George retires, if he goes and have a drink," I said, "I'm going with him."

VB: [laughs]

EC: So she says well that's up to me. If I do want to go and have a drink I would have it. So that was that. But we didn't go drinking, did we George?

GC: No.

EC: That was just a matter of speech. So anyway erm, when he first started to wash up, you'd have thought I'd never washed anything up. Washing the back of the cake tins. I say, "You don't wash the back of cake tins."

VB: [laughs]

EC: All that sort of thing. And anyway, I say, "I tell you what I think you should do George. Now I say you ought to start learning to cook." 'Oh ar," he say, "Aren't I doing enough?" 'Cause he did all the windows.

VB: [laughs]

EC: He did all the heavy work. But we used to go out a lot, didn't we George? So eh, he say, "What am I going to cook?" I say, "Well you like your suet pudding, 01:01:00don't you?" I said, "Make yourself a suet pudding so you get on with it." Which he did. Turned out all right. And then he'd get fed up sitting and he'd say, "Is there anything I can cook, Ethel?" I say, "You should make a sponge". He made a lovely sponge, he made it better than what I did.

VB: [laughs]

EC: Well what I was thinking. I'd always waited on him hand and foot. Well if anything happens to me, he'd have been helpless. So he says, "Don't talk like that." Well I say, "You never know what's going to happen." So anyway, I fell over and broke my hand--

VB: Aw dear.

EC: So that meant George had to cook. So George knuckled down, cooked the dinners and that just came naturally. So if ever I aren't well, George is all, and if anything happens to me, I know he can cook a dinner. [pause 2 seconds] So that's that.

VB: Mhm.

EC: And when I told people they say, "That's a good idea!"

VB: 'Tis, yeah.

EC: Well why should a wife have to still keep working and her husband just--

GC: I don't do it. Although she's telling you that I don't do it.

VB: [laughs]

GC: I don't know that last time I cooked. Well, I will, I'll fry the dinner and get things like that. I'll make chips and do little things like that but not to cook the meal--

EC: He's good at washing up though.

VB: Oh. That's the best, [laughs] that's the worst part.

GC: Not to cook a meal. That's too--

[End of interview]